Now both major parties are racing to the bottom to demonise refugees before the election.
The Federal Opposition has attacked the Government’s decision to suspend asylum seeker claims from Sri Lanka and Afghanistan, saying it is politically motivated and will not stop the boats coming to Australia.
Damn right it is, Tony – as politically motivated as your hateful campaign. Rudd will now be responsible for any number of deaths of asylum seekers stuck in peril where we could’ve done our duty as fellow human beings and helped. But so will you: you’re the head of a party whose anti-refugee campaign commenced with outright lies about their numbers. You both make me sick.
Abbott’s and Rudd’s new target demographic
Tough call, but I’m going to have to put the party that started this shameful episode below the one that just played along with it.
UPDATE: Today’s Crikey email points out how that approach could ultimately backfire:
There is private acknowledgement among government and strategic decision-makers that Australia has a moral responsibility, as the richest and most underpopulated nation in the Asian region, to be seen to be growing its population and assuming its share of humanitarian migration. This is partly because of the terrible optics of a fortress Australia approach, and partly because such an approach is so out of sync with population trends in our region that it could generate enough resentment among our neighbours to present a serious security risk to Australia.
I expect the Fortress Australia advocates would then blame those sorts of unfortunate eventualities on the left, too. Honestly, they live in a fantasy world.
Moved On 
Jeremy
We can still be humane and send back anyone who does not now face persecution in their homeland. So if the front up in a leaky boat we feed them give them medical attention should they need it) and then a nice plane ride back to Colombo or Kabul.
You just have to face the fact that rather them all having “a well founded fear of persecution” most are just seeking a better life now while we may be obliged by the ludicrously over generous UN convention to provide refuge we are not obliged to accept all comers when it comes to immigrants.
Or are you going to suggest otherwise?
Ugh. Iain, the point is that we’re now sending back people whether they’re facing persecution or not.
We’re not assessing them.
That’s the point. Try again.
It seems to me a far more humane (and much cheaper) alternative would be to set up offices in the countries from which the boat people depart so their claims for refugee status could be processed before they decide to undertake an unsafe boat trip. It would reduce the overwhelming armada of boats approaching our hallowed shores.
Of course we may need to increase our refugee intake.
Cue Iain and SB …
Jeremy
As a general practice asylum seekers dispose of or “lose” their identity documents in an effort to make checking their stories harder.
In the case of Sri Lanka the long and very nasty civil war is over so the majority of any claims of persecution are now rather moot. Like wise the UN reports that the situation in Afghanistan is better so the veracity of persecution claims are more questionable as well.
Can you accept the notion that anyone claiming Persecution may be lying to try to get residency ?
“As a general practice asylum seekers dispose of or “lose” their identity documents in an effort to make checking their stories harder.”
Says you.
“In the case of Sri Lanka the long and very nasty civil war is over so the majority of any claims of persecution are now rather moot.”
Says you.
“Like wise the UN reports that the situation in Afghanistan is better so the veracity of persecution claims are more questionable as well.”
I’m sure you’re planning your next holiday there.
“Can you accept the notion that anyone claiming Persecution may be lying to try to get residency ?”
Yes. Can you accept the notion that not even assessing asylum seekers means we’re sending back actual asylum seekers to the situations from which they’re legitimately fleeing because we’re not bothering to check them?
I remember learning in history class about how when the Vietnam war ended, all the supporters of the Diem regime were accepted with open arms by the NVA, and they lived together in a spirit of brotherhood.
And after the long and very nasty Chinese civil war ended, Mao Tse-Tung treated ethnic minorities and political opponents with great respect. He even built Laogai camps to house internally displaced persons, the great humanitarian that he was.
It’s a ridiculous announcement. It won’t stop AS, and if anything, those who come from those countries will simply sit in detention centres forever and a day.
CI will fill. Then where are they placed? Stupid populist governments who believe bullshit promulgated by an unpopular and unelectable opposition.
It’s hilarious that Phoney Tony is accusing others of using boat people to score political points. How does he top that joke? Sheer comic genius.
Zoot, if you’d actually read any of my comments here in earlier threads on this topic, you would know that I have suggested exactly what you have.
The issue is that we should have a more orderly way of dealing with refugees. Clearly we need to take more of them in. At the same time we need to put more effort into services to assist them on arrival. It is well worth that effort. We will be better and wealthier country for it.
SB, if I misrepresented you I unreservedly apologise. I only skimmed the other thread and must have misinterpreted your stance.
The fact that both of your ideas are dangerously stupid and wrong (the international centrelink for reffos, not the helping them part) doesn’t seem to have caught your attention though.
If refugees were ordered, they wouldn’t be refugees, they’d be dead.
Iain, because people who win wars never punish their defeated opponents for fighting in the first place do they? m i ryte? yeh boi.
@Iain: “In the case of Sri Lanka the long and very nasty civil war is over so the majority of any claims of persecution are now rather moot. Like wise the UN reports that the situation in Afghanistan is better so the veracity of persecution claims are more questionable as well.”
Are you for real? I don’t mean to be abusive but these ideas are the most self-serving, blatantly utopian and misguided and, frankly, stupidly simplistic I’ve read in a while.
Yes, of course! Now the civil war in Sri Lanka is over, the Tamils are welcomed with open arms and are valued, protected and equal members of Sri Lankan society. And similarly, everything is coming up roses for the Hazara in Afghanistan.
As sad as this seems on the surface it may not be such a bad thing. It just removes this as being a wedge issue at a soon to be called election.
They are not saying they won’t ever take any more people from these countries, they are effectivly just saying it won’t be till after the election is over.
Sure it would be preferable for the government to lead the country by principal and stick to the moral high ground but sometimes these things are two steps forward one step back. If they don’t get themselves re-elected in a couple of months they can’t reverse the policy then again do whats right because we know that the alternative govenment is unlikely to.
Things in Australia are going from bad to completely unacceptable. I mean really – elections in this country aim for the lowest common denominator. Redneck Wonderland indeed. It’s a disgrace. JM Coetzee wrote a great novel called ‘Disgrace’ about South Africa before leaving that place for South Australia. If he wrote his next book about Australia, would he called it simply ‘Fucked’.
Iain – wow, you’re just going from strength to strength with your brain deadedness…
I’ll avoid the “they’re no longer persecuted” type argument as it’s been answered well so far above.
But what exactly is wrong with people “just seeking a better life”?
Is having a decent life something that only you’re allowed Iain?
On a positive note there was a call for a rally against immigration on Friday in melbourne that attracted about 12 people. They were too chicken shit to even come out of Young and Jackons and march because of the 400 people who turned up in opposition.
Iain – you didn’t happen to be there did you?
“But what exactly is wrong with people “just seeking a better life”?’
That would make them immigrants not refugees, would it not ?
“such an approach is so out of sync with population trends in our region that it could generate enough resentment among our neighbours to present a serious security risk to Australia.”
They should control their borders or get themselves a population minister!
“On a positive note there was a call for a rally against immigration on Friday in melbourne that attracted about 12 people. They were too chicken shit to even come out of Young and Jackons and march because of the 400 people who turned up in opposition.”
A few of us turned up just to watch (we altered our lunchtime running route that day) – not to generalise, but the majority of those 400 clearly didn’t have other obligations – such as employment.
I meant to comment on this:
“On a positive note there was a call for a rally against immigration on Friday in melbourne that attracted about 12 people. They were too chicken shit to even come out of Young and Jackons and march because of the 400 people who turned up in opposition.”
In your opinion 12 people being intimidated by 400 is a good thing is it BT — so much for freedom of speech and democracy.
Very easy to call others “chicken shit” when you have them outnumbered by about 30 to 1 I suppose, but I guess you’ve at least chosen an appropriate screen moniker.
“not to generalise, but the majority of those 400 clearly didn’t have other obligations – such as employment.”
I’m not sure what your point is.
Yes Gavin, fascists should feel comfortable gathering together in attempts to intimidate people of different races and religions without anybody turning up to counter them.
So you should be a little more accurate with your assertions of what i mean.
I mean it’s a good thing that any number of fascists are intimidated by anti fascists.
They have their freedom of speech – they can gather and spew hate, however they should know that when they do, others will be there as well in opposition.
I’m not sure 12 people would be all that intimidating BT.
gavin – fascist organisations and movements generally don’t start with 1000s of members.
Clearly they were hoping for more, and I think it’s a good thing that they’re less confident to call another rally because of the outcome of this, and that anti racists are more confident because of it.
It’s better than what’s happening in the UK where the BNP and they’re foot soldiers are able to call out thousands and get protected from the anti fascists by the cops.
blasttyrant
I live in rural Queensland so of course I was not in Melbourne.
🙄
But I also think that a noisy rabble proves nothing, except that there are a lot of idiots in Melbourne
“In your opinion 12 people being intimidated by 400 is a good thing is it BT — so much for freedom of speech and democracy.”
Fuck ’em, the bigots have every right to spew their bile, thing is they were too chicken shit to do it! LOL – Good on the 400 who turned up to counter them.
GavinM, Bad things happen when good people do nothing, I for one am glad these idiot, racist pricks were put in their box. They can say what they like after all we enjoy freedom of speech, that’s not to say they shouldn’t be held responsible for the foul hatred they spew! Stupid, cowardly bigots is what they are.
“But I also think that a noisy rabble proves nothing, except that there are a lot of idiots in Melbourne”
At least 12, and they weren’t noisy..
BT and Rob,
In a supposedly free, democratic country even idiots have the right to publicly voice their opinions without fear of violence from others who disagree with them — if you don’t agree with this notion of free speech for all, perhaps you would be more comfortable living in a country where there is none.
As I said, it’s very easy to call people chicken-shit when you have them outnumbered by 30 to 1.
gavin – who said there was any fear of violence? The police were there to protect them physically.
It’s the verbal taunts and complete isolation of being such a minority that made friday a success.
As Rob says, they have the right to spew hate, but others have the right to gather and spew hate back at them. Sounds like you’d rather only one side of the fence be allowed to do that however Gavin, so maybe it’s you that would feel better living somewhere else.
“In a supposedly free, democratic country even idiots have the right to publicly voice their opinions without fear of violence from others who disagree with them —”
I wasn’t aware that the bigoted idiots who were too chickenshit to express their right of free speech were under the threat of violence.
“perhaps you would be more comfortable living in a country where there is none.”
You’re better than that, why are you spouting boltard type rhetoric?
“As I said, it’s very easy to call people chicken-shit when you have them outnumbered by 30 to 1.”
They either believe what they believe and are prepared to stand by it or they’re chickenshit. there were no threats of violence and plenty of cops there in case. I don’t make any apologies for despising bigoted, ignorant, racist TWATS!!!! God knows why you’re defending them, there right to free speech is not threatened.
Yes Gavin, what of the right for the counter protest to express their right of free speech?
You guys don’t believe that verbal abuse from 400 people aimed at 12 doesn’t constitute intimidation ?
Says it all really.
Where did I say I believe only one side has a right to free speech, I said in a democracy all do — however, there is a difference between engaging in free speech and intimidating and abusing people — particularly when the odds are 30 to 1, very brave and not ‘chicken-shit’ at all, I’m sure.
No problem at all with others having a counter-march to protest against what the other mob were spruiking, but I get the impression from BT’s post that there was no counter-march in this instance, just an unruly mob hurling verbal ‘taunts’ (I suspect abuse), at a handful of people.
Incidentally, given that these people didn’t come out of Y&J’s, how do you know they were fascists ? You said yourself they were too scared to come out or say anything, so on what are you basing this accusation ?
I’d say the only example of fascism displayed on that day was by those who intimidated a handful of people into silence.
The left was once a great proponent of free speech. They claimed the right to offend and attack the beliefs of anyone they disagreed with. So far, so good. That is how it should be.
The problem is that now they have ascended to power in the media, the academy, the press and the halls of government, they are quite the fascists when it comes to allowing others to speak.
Frequently they classify opposing views as hate speech then seek to silence them, either by getting speakers banned from institutions such as universities (If there is one place that ought to be able to handle free speech it is universities.) If they can’t get people banned on the basis of hate speech, they threaten to riot and then try to have the speaker disinvited because of their threat of violence. Failing that, they show up at the meetings and prevent the speaker being heard with their fascist antics.
More disturbing is their use of the legal system to shut people up. It is illegal to ridicule religion in Victoria. Geert Wilders is on trial in the Netherlands for making a 10 minute video clip. And eco-fascists are threatening to prosecute people who aren’t on board with climate alarmism – that is a lot of people to prosecute these days.
The left will not hesitate to round up mobs to intimidate other people from protesting. It is standard operating procedure – nothing scares them more than dissenting opinions.
Yes Gavin, bravo. Next time The anti crowd will be sure to send the extra 388 people home so it can be completely even.
For me, i think that if you’re going to go out in public and preach hate in an attempt to incite violence against minority groups based on race, religion or sexual orientation then it’s important for regular working people to point a finger at them and call them for what they are.
You want information about them or the rally, look it up, im sure it was covered by the news.
I will tell you that this “unruly mob” had Adam Brant from the greens, a representative of the Vic Trades hall council and a delegation from the construction division of the CFMEU.
I’d suggest you look up the meaning of fascism since you seem to have no clue as to what it means.
Whilst you’re looking them up Gavin, why dont you take note of their next rally and turn up and show your support if you feel so strongly about it? I’m sure you’ll fit right in with all the “sodomites should be executed” and “go back to where ya fuckin’ came from talk”.
Ah SB, the great defender of free speech.
I believe it was you that said that anti semites have the right to have web sites denying the holocaust etc, however we also have the write to use our free speech to call them on it. I guess that goes out the window when you can have a go at the left.
“I will tell you that this “unruly mob” had Adam Brant from the greens, a representative of the Vic Trades hall council and a delegation from the construction division of the CFMEU.”
to clarify – Adam Brant, and Jacob from Trades Hall were two of the speakers.
BT, I wasn’t complaining about the left or anyone else exercising their right to free speech, but rather their stopping other people exercising the same right. That is in fact the aim of many counter-demonstrations. It is no surprise to see the ratbags you mentioned above turning out for an event like this.
“but rather their stopping other people exercising the same right.”
Quit your bullshit SB, nobody stopped anybody, it’s just the twats on your end of the political spectrum, the stupid wingnuts also happen to be cowards.
RobJ, as you well know, unlike you I am not at either end of the political spectrum, but rather I take the good points from either side and usually end up somewhere in the middle.
Take this argument – you think free speech includes the right to shout people down so as to stop them exercising their right to free speech. I think that that is in fact a fascist act, typically carried out by lefties who want to silence those who have different opinions.
Yes, SB, sure. You’re “in the middle”. That’s why you’re constantly bashing “the left” and barely ever criticise the right.
“RobJ, as you well know, unlike you I am not at either end of the political spectrum, ”
I know you are full of shit, you just don’t realise where the centre is. You believe Fox is fair and balanced FFS!
I’m well aware that I’m left of centre, unlike you I’m not in denial. ah well I suppose you’re good………for a laugh.
In Germany in the 30’s not enough people had the balls to shout down the racists (they were products of their time mind you), thankfully in Australia in the 21st century plenty of us are prepared to stand up to bigotry, this is a good thing, unless of course your an idiot bigot yourself.
Around here, there are lot more leftist foibles on display! But the fact remains that there are many areas on which I agree with the leftist take on things: refugees, gay marriage, John Howard, censorship, intellectual property and others.
I usually take a middling position. For example I think that free markets need to be regulated and that public schools and medical services are necessary.
The real problem is there are so many extreme viewpoints expressed here that there is always someone who needs to be set to rights.
In Germany in the 1930s the fascists shouted down dissenters. Today that kind of behaviour is the province of the left.
I have been in a university lecture theatre where a visiting lecturer was water bombed because he wasn’t toeing the leftists line. Academics, including the head of the School of General Studies supported those actions in the student newspaper. I was stunned at the time, but now I know that shutting people up is a standard tactic of the hysterical left.
“I usually take a middling position.”
But when it comes to the rest of us v the idiot bigots you choose to side with the bigots… LOL
“extreme viewpoints”
Like Fox being ‘Fair & Balanced’? 😉
Rob J, Fox has some opinion shows that are overtly political and one-sided, like Beck. But when it comes to reporting the news, Fox is fairly neutral. I do like that they present opposing viewpoints. If you watch the same issues being covered on CNN or the BBC (or the ABC for that matter) you will not get that balance.
To a degree, it is about perspective, and from Splatter’s perspective Fox appears to be “fairly neutral”, which tells you plenty about where his “middle” is located.
BT,
In your own post you said the anti-immigration mob didn’t say anything — so I’ll repeat my question…How do you know they were fascists, or even that they were rascists ?
It doesn’t necessarily follow that just because someone wants to see immigration cut back that they are either rascists or fascists, nor do they have to be right-wing.
Personally I think we need to have the debate without it being reduced to childish name-calling — unfortuneately, people like yourself don’t seem capable of it though.
As for fascism itself, I know very well — I’d suggest you are the one that needs to look it up.
You might also want to look at the tactics the Nazis used when they silenced opposition — such as disrupting meetings, shouting down opposition speakers and assaulting opponents…Sound familiar ?
Gavin – Fascism as an ideology is based in extreme nationalism and hatred of working class organisations like unions.
Silencing opposition is a tactic employed by many people from the left and right, it’s not an ideology.
So be calling Unite Against Racism, which involves trade union support fascist is factually incorrect, even if you dislike their tactics and you think that’s what the Unite Against Racism campaign did – it’s you that’s been reduced to childish name calling to call them fascist because of it.
If you’d bother to check it out yourself you find that they mimicking the EDL by calling themselves the Australian Defence League, and a couple of the people taking control of their “campaign” are known amongst the left and the unions in Australia.
Actually here is a link to the story from a source that you probably get most of your information from
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/far-right-white-supremacists-planning-anti-islam-march-on-state-parliament/story-e6frf7jo-1225846184598
Good ol’ News Limited, surely a source you too dicktards would never question.
So again, if you believe so strongly in their right to rally you should turn up to their next rally in support. Oh wait, they probably wouldn’t let you join them, after all, YOU flew here, they grew here.
As for “You might also want to look at the tactics the Nazis used when they silenced opposition — such as disrupting meetings, shouting down opposition speakers and assaulting opponents…Sound familiar ?”,
what a load of guff. As stated a number of times, they had the cops their to protect them. Nobody even came near them.
And Rob is correct. It was lilly livered wankers like SB and Gavin that didn’t want to smash up Hitlers meetings when they first started that allowed them to grow. What do you think they plan at these meetings anyway? You think they’re sitting around swapping recipes for brownies or something? Generally when fascists get together it’s how to grow large enough so they can start a campaign of violence against their opposition and minority groups.
SB, im still waiting for you to define “Power Elite” and elaborate on how Nixon is a Lefty beyond saying she is known for being PC.
SB, what happened to your blog? This is the perfect topic for you to post a discussion about.
You should be on their now creating a post titled “Evil lefties from Unite Against Racism interfering with white supremacists right to free speech”!
And you dont think you should discuss it on your free speech blog, why not?
You make a lot of assumptions about me BT, none of which are correct, and all of which make you look rather foolish.
As for calling people fascists, I believe it was you who first introduced the term to this thread.
My stating that people have a right to freedom of speech doesn’t mean I have to agree with them BT, I even think you have the right to spout the drivel that you have above.
Gavin – “You make a lot of assumptions about me BT, none of which are correct, and all of which make you look rather foolish.”
Foolish to who? You and SB? Why would i care what you think? You’ve already shown you’re a bit dim.
“As for calling people fascists, I believe it was you who first introduced the term to this thread.”
Yes, as a term to define a group of people with a particular ideology that matches that of fascism, as explained above. It’s not a term i use lightly, I haven’t called you one for example because despite the fact i personally don’t think much of your or your opinions, you don’t fit that particular ideology.
You on the other hand started using it because you dont like the tactics that you assume were employed based on no information about the event at all.
” I even think you have the right to spout the drivel that you have above.”
Exactly where is the drivel Gavin?
I see now that you’ve been provided with some evidence from a news source that you must even find credible in this situation and a definition of the term fascism to define why i used it and why you usage was factually incorrect you’ve just shut up shop and gone back to vague put downs.
Not an unexpected response from you however.
Oh and
“My stating that people have a right to freedom of speech doesn’t mean I have to agree with them BT”
I’m not saying you necessarily agree with them, I’m just saying that if their free speech is so important to you, you should get off your ass and do something about it, instead of sitting there waving your finger at people.
I certainly detect some animosity towards to Unite Against Racism “mob” as well, so why don’t you do your part to protect the ADL’s free speech from the evil anti racists?
EvShow, this is a really simple concept – shouting people down is denying them their right to free speech. It is what fascists do, and it is a tactic not uncommon among the left. Calling them out for it is a good thing.
SB “EvShow, this is a really simple concept – shouting people down is denying them their right to free speech”
Nobody shouted them down. Nobody was going to shout them down, there was always going to be too many police in the way for that.
“It is what fascists do, and it is a tactic not uncommon among the left.”
What exactly is your point here?
I already stated that silencing the opposition is used by both the left and right. However I provided the reason why fascism is an appropriate term for these people based on their ideology.
And when are you going to provide a definition for the “power elite” and how Nixon is part of this left wing conspiracy you seem fixated on?
And again, if you feel so strongly about Unite Against Racism’s campaign tactics, i urge you to resurrect your blog and write about it.
Oh, Evshow — I should have recognised the style — enough said.
“Oh, Evshow — I should have recognised the style — enough said.”
Playing the ball not the man i see. Again, no surprise.
I’ll take it by your lack of response to some reasonable questions that you’re unable to without looking even sillier than you already do.
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