What’s a woman worth without her virginity?

Less, says Tony Abbott:

TONY Abbott urges women to save their virginity for marriage and reveals mixed feelings about contraception in a new interview [with the Women's Weekly].

Mr Abbott is also asked about whether he expects his own daughters to remain virgins until they are married and says all women should regard their virginity as “a gift” that should not be given lightly.

Well, of course. What man doesn’t respect a woman more if he’s the one to “deflower” her? The problem is, you only get to do it once, and then, you know. She’s already given you that “gift”. What else does she have to offer? Probably best to send her off to a nunnery and find another one.

And here I was worried that ludicrously offensive sexual double-standards were on the way out. Three cheers to Tony for publicly reviving them. I’m sure the readers of the Women’s Weekly can’t wait to thank him at the ballot box.

PS: And don’t even THINK of throwing this back at Tony as some sort of “hypocrisy”, on the grounds that he regularly had pre-marital sex when he was younger. He’s a MAN, so it’s okay. It’s just women who are ruined by it. And you can’t attack him for callously “ruining” (as he thinks of it) his then partner without agreeing with him that single women’s worth is tied up in their virginity, so that won’t work, either.

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95 responses to “What’s a woman worth without her virginity?

  1. I’m so over this caveman.

    The sooner parliament comes back and Julia rips him to shreds, the better.

  2. Northern Exposure

    I’m glad he picked that magazine to wax lyrical about the morals and value of sex. Way to humiliate and de-value half of australia in one go Tony. Your handlers are truly un-orthodox, if not inspiring.

  3. Who does this message resonate with, and do they read the WW? Seems like another FAIL to me.

  4. Aaaaaaarrrrghg!

  5. Pingback: More stripes « In a strange land

  6. Ah, I get it. He lost the RU486 battle, so now he’s trying to stop women having sex in the first place. Unless they are married. Because we all know that married women don’t have abortions.

  7. Thank you Tony for the “gift” of sounding like the sexist fuckwit that you are.

  8. anthony nolan

    Been sent here from LP for some reason but cannot contain my glee at this latest offering from the monk. He certainly has his finger on the pulse of young people, by golly. I’m so pleased he took up the offer of making comments on his own children’s sexual status. Hell, why else would a man have daughters except to admonish them in public over what his expectations are? He’d be so ashamed to offer up a non-virgin to a bloke at the alter, I’m sure.

  9. If Abbott is just charging ahead and speaking without considering the advice of his advisors, then we really do have to worry – what sort of government would he lead? Then again, if his advisors think this is the best way to swing Australian voters – apparently the Coalition needs just a 1% swing to knock off Rudd and co – then surely the advisors are barking up the wrong tree. Either way, it just makes you cringe. I thought we were all about ‘going forwards’ rather than dwelling in some caveman past? Cheers, Nigel

  10. I think his advisors have spotted a gap – there’s not McGillicuddy Serious Party in Australia so they’re leaping in with their own Great Leap Backwards. I heartily approve and can’t wait for their passionate opposition to mechanical transportation to be revealed.

  11. apparently the Coalition needs just a 1% swing to knock off Rudd and co

    Is that correct? I’m not sure it is, but if so no wonder the Liberal’s boosters at News Ltd have been screeching like banshees about Rudd and co these last couple of years.

  12. “no wonder the Liberal’s boosters at News Ltd have been screeching like banshees about Rudd and co these last couple of years.”

    To have The Australian dub him their Australian of the Year??

  13. “all women should regard their virginity as “a gift” that should not be given lightly”

    All women should regard their virginity as none of your fucking business, Abbott.

  14. Oh, and what’s a woman worth without her virginity? A lost vote, methinks.

  15. To have The Australian dub him their Australian of the Year??

    One day out of 2 years means fuck all cemail.

    Are you arguing the Oz has run with a pro-Rudd bias since he became prime minister?

  16. If women are supposed to stay virgin until marriage, but men aren’t, then married women must be having affairs with all those unmarried men. Harems FTW!

  17. At least I don’t have to be envious of Americans any more, what with their backward, religious-nutjob politicians. Now we have our very own! Yay!

    *sob*

  18. Nice one Tony, keep it up, keep demonstrating that you are a dinosaur that isn’t fit to lead this nation.

  19. RobJ: it makes you wonder what the coalition women think when they hear of their leader spouting sexist shit like this.

  20. Maybe they agree confessions?

    Bronwyn Bishop? She’s a dinosaur.

    But yeah, whilst pandering to the mysoginist vote he’d be alienating a lot of women, the sort of votes you’d think he’d be going after if he wants to win the next election.

  21. You know, I’m not sure if this IS such a bad move on his part… obviously it is foul and misogynistic, but we aren’t the target demographic for WW. Expanding on what RobJ said above, maybe the readers will agree with him?

  22. Not only is it misogynistic, it is also homophobic.

    By saying that sex should be confined to the marital bed, he is also saying that gays should NEVER have sex, since they aren’t allowed to marry.

    I’m not sure he considered all the gay people living in sin when he voted in favour of the amendments to the Marriage Act…

  23. Well, if it’s such an important “gift”, perhaps Tony would contemplate government-assisted means of helping women keep it by decreasing the incentive for women to lose it… maybe including in the secondary school curriculum techniques for “self-amusement”… maybe government subsidies for things that go hum in the night?

  24. Can somebody remind me which is the party supposedly for “small government”? I thought it was the Liberal party, but when it leader stars lecturing people on what they should and should not do in their own bedrooms, I am not so sure.

  25. Patrick, I think you mean the Republicans in America. The Liberals have been getting all hot and bothered about our bedrooms for quite some time now.

  26. Keri,

    Beautifully summed up — in both your posts.

    Are we sure that Abbott’s advisors aren’t actually Labor Party plants ?

    It seems to me that every time he opens his mouth he says something that will drive more people away from the Libs.

    Can he really be that out of touch that he thinks people won’t remember or be reminded of his own pre-marital record….

  27. Pingback: Other things Tony said « In a strange land

  28. Leftie:

    Do you think men and women think differently about sex?

  29. Do you think men and women think differently about sex?

    What does difference in thinking have to do with anything?

    Now the Fibs are claiming Gillard has no right to say women don’t want lecturing by Tone because she herself isn’t a parent.

    Didn’t Heffernan shoot himself in the foot with similar comments a few years ago? Typical nastiness we all remember from the Howard years. The dinosaurs in the Liberal party need to retire.

  30. From that link, notice the Australian’s attempt to massage the damage away?

    “In the interview, Mr Abbott said he would tell his daughters that sex was “the greatest gift that you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving, and don’t give it to someone lightly.””

    Um, no, he said that VIRGINITY was the greatest gift a WOMAN could give someone.

  31. What is actually the problem with Abbott’s comments?

    I wish I was a virgin when I met my wife and that she was too.

  32. The problem is, Employee, that it is absolutely none of his god damned business when any woman in Australia decides to have sex for the first time.

    If Abbott’s position was that you and your wife should have bestowed your “gift” on someone at an earlier time, would you feel that to be an intrusive comment on your sexual practices?

  33. Oh, and further, the other problem is that he sees a woman’s virginity as a gift.

    Probably drawing that distinction because HE wasn’t a virgin when he married.

  34. I don’t think he is proposing legislation Keri or planning on imposing some sort of “virginity bonus” to thoose who remain intact till marriage.

    I read it as he was making some sort of social commentary. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that we as a society have a conversation about sex and it’s many aspects and the morality around the subject of sex.

  35. Setting aside the offensive double standards of Abbott’s comments, the problems he has is the considerable baggage he carries on issues such as this, his flip-flopping on everything from climate change to maternity leave, and the fact that he has deliberately chosen to make this remark in a national magazine knowing he has baggage on women’s issues. Either the man is incredibly naive, lacks political judgement, can’t control his run-away mouth, or all 3. I do not believe someone with those traits is actually qualified to be PM.

  36. “I do not believe someone with those traits is actually qualified to be PM.”

    Well confessions that is up to his political party and the Australian public.

    I also don’t see the ‘double standard’. He didn’t in the same interview say that blokes should be promiscuous.

  37. and the Australian public.

    Of which I’m a member.

    I also don’t see the ‘double standard’.

    You ought to familiarise yourself with Abbott’s past.

  38. I am familar (or as familiar as any other reasonably well read member of the Australian public) of Abbotts past.

    I actually think that he has led an incredibly diverse life so far.

    I also think as an alternative PM he is well placed to pass an opinion on public morality.

    And isn’t it better for all of you who disagree with his opinion that is is “out there” and on the record.

  39. I also think as an alternative PM he is well placed to pass an opinion on public morality.

    By proclaiming that women ought to deny themselves the same…er….diversity Tone had? You still aren’t getting the double standard are you?

    And isn’t it better for all of you who disagree with his opinion that is is “out there” and on the record.

    It’s fantastic for Labor, but I reckon it doesn’t raise eyebrows in voter land. As I’ve already commented this is the problem he has: these kinds of wistful observations from 1950 Central Casting is *precisely* what the public expect from Abbott. That’s the baggage he carries. By confirming the public view yet again, I suspect his comments are actually going to be a big problem for Abbott.

    And the disgusting comments about Gillard are simply more of the same hate mongering we’ve come to expect from the Liberal party.

  40. What a silly argument you are proposing confessions….. Abbott had sex outside of marriage so now he isn’t able to have an opionion on wheather it is a good or bad thing to be a virgin when one marries.

    I actually think it places him in a very good position.

    When I was much younger I was involved in a ‘gang-bang’ – three blokes and a girl. All very much consentual but I now regret that I did that.
    I wish I could take that act back. I would also say if asked by a journalist that ‘gang-bangs’ aren’t a great thing……. because this is the honest opinion I now hold.
    If you had asked me at 18 yo I would have said somthing different.

    But hey you cant put a wise head on young shoulders.

  41. It’s actually not a silly argument employee, but a valid observation grounded in fact: Your Tone proclaims that women should save their virginity as a gift to give their husband when he himself hasn’t abided by that same advice. It’s a double standard.

    And regardless of whether Abbott’s proclamations align with your experiences or not does not make them appropriate for an alternative PM who needs to convince voters (women voters at that) that he isn’t the flip-flopping, moralising old busy-body they likely already think he is.

    The other ‘interesting’ thing about Tone’s comment is his apparent view that sex is a greater gift to give someone than the gift of love, compassion and companionship. Modern conservatives are taking stranger and stranger positions on social issues.

  42. Employee, I’m very glad Abbott came clean. His honesty is refreshing.

    What he’s revealed about his attitudes to women and sex, on the other hand, are thoroughly disturbing.

  43. Jeremy: OT but why isn’t your blog participating in the blacked out internet campaign this week?

  44. Is there a way of making it work with wordpress?

  45. I don’t know, but scepticlawyer and HAT have done it. Maybe they aren’t wordpress though.

  46. Both SkepticLawyer and HoydenAboutTown have their own sites, using wordpress software, whereas Anonymous Lefty uses wordpress’s free hosting, so it’s not possible to to a site ‘blackout’. I’ve managed to put up a blackout header and a blackout post at my place, but that’s about as much as can be done at a wordpress hosted blog.

  47. Employee, he is specifically stating that a WOMAN’S virginity is a “gift”. He is very, very specifically telling the women of Australia when, and whom he thinks they should have sex with.

    NO politician has that right.

    Seriously, how hard is that to grasp? Tony Abbot has no fucking business telling the women of Australia when and who to have sex with. None.

  48. A shame about the blacked out thing.

    The other thing with Abbott’s interview is the seemingly calculated way he has used his daughters first sexual experience for political advantage. What kind of parent much less politician does that? The more common response would surely be wtte “that’s something we discuss as a family” and try to avoid answering the question. That Abbott was so willing to use his family in such a way is another disturbing insight into his worldview.

  49. I will try and read the print version of Womans Weekly in the next couple of day’s however according to the online article Abbott makes no broad suggestion about Australian women remaining virgins until marriage.

    http://aww.ninemsn.com.au/news/inthemag/1004317/abbotts-women

    Sex before marriage
    “I would say to my daughters, if they were to ask me this question, I would say … it is the greatest gift that you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving and don’t give it to someone lightly, that is what I would say.”

    If he doesn’t make conflicting statements in the article then this is a million miles away from what Keri is carrying on about.

    ie note the “my daughters” and “if they were to ask me this question”.

  50. ie note the “my daughters” and “if they were to ask me this question”.

    And note that he *chooses* as Leader of the Opposition to answer this question in a national magazine, knowing it would probably get reported in all the major news outlets in the leadup to publication. He would of gone in the WW to do a puff interview portraying himself as a ‘Family Man’ in order to boost his image with women, ie the interview was motivated by political gain.

    If the virginity remark wasn’t a brain snap or lapse in judgement on his part then it’s much, much worse: what kind of parent deliberately uses his daughters sexual experiences for political gain?

  51. I don’t think virginity is a “gift” in the sense that you cannot touch it or feel it, and it is hardly even a state of being – “virgins” can have masturbated themselves to orgasm, or given oral, so they have experienced sex before penetration.
    The thing that annoys me most is the false dichotomy on news.com.au for example, where you either save yourself for marriage or you apparently bonk anything that moves. It’s not like that in real life – serial loving monogamy is most people’s experience.

  52. What does seem certain is that while Abbott is a leader he will have to deal with lazy journalists who are attempting to get him with a ‘gottcha’ question.

    You just have to look at the subjects they questioned him on in the Womens Weekly interview;

    Abortion

    Sex before marriage

    Gay marriage

    Drugs

    Re the errant article by the Australian’s Online Political Editior, Samantha Maiden which led to the creation of this thread; I look forward to the denouncement of her shoddy journalism over at Pure Poison.

  53. You just have to look at the subjects they questioned him on in the Womens Weekly interview;

    Well he only has himself to blame for that. Throughout his entire political career he’s worn his catholicism on his sleeve and just about everywhere else that’s visible ftm.

    As Health Minister he took the extraordinary step of appointing priests to various committees, regardless of the person’s expertise, and leapt in boots and all in an attempt to stop parliament being the arbiter of whether RU486 would be publicly available – it was Howard shafting him that put a stop to him thankfully.

    Of course journos are going to ask him about his views on these matters – every fibre of his being simply screams preachy busy-body wanting to meddle in women’s affairs.

  54. And the other thing you assume is that the terms of the WW interview weren’t set by Abbott himself or his minders.

  55. Yeah, yeah, yeah we get it confessions, you don’t Tony Abbott.

    Don’t vote for him. Lobby against him. Blog. Hold his record up for scrutinous examination.

    But don’t partake in perpetuating a lie about him.

  56. you don’t like Tony Abbott

  57. What “lie” would that be Employee?

    And is it just me or are you defending Tone’s proclamations just a little too vigorously?

  58. What exactly is the lie?

    That Tony Abbot said….

    “all women should regard their virginity as “a gift” that should not be given lightly”
    Keri 25 January, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    or…

    Um, no, he said that VIRGINITY was the greatest gift a WOMAN could give someone.
    Jeremy 27 January, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    And is it just me or are you defending Tone’s proclamations just a little too vigorously?

    Yes it is just you confessions. I am attempting to highlight the dishonesty of some sections of our media and you seem to just want to smear both Abbott and now myself.

    You have been called out. Best you just cut your losses and go onto another thread now.

  59. So now you are denying Abbott’s actual words because you have no substantive rebuttal to my arguments?

    Interesting but not unsurprising I’m afraid.

  60. confessions they are not his actual words.

    He was not specifically talking about the women of Australia retaining there virginity as you and others claimed.

    Keep up.

  61. Employee I’m afraid it is you who hasn’t kept up. I’ve already discounted this here, here and here.

    You chose not to respond to the perfectly valid observations and arguments I laid out earlier, preferring instead to throw about accusations about lying. Either read and respond to what people are actually saying or find somewhere else to perform your concern troll schtick.

  62. FFS confessions!!

    I wont be responding or engaging with you again.

  63. Quote from the Australian who reported on this issue:

    “Mr Abbott is also asked about whether he expects his own daughters to remain virgins until they are married and says all women should regard their virginity as “a gift” that should not be given lightly”

    Exactly what have I lied about, Employee?

    I do not take being called a liar lightly. Also, I’d ask you, if you’re going to do so, to back it up with some – I don’t know – links or sources that refute what I’ve said.

  64. I wont be responding or engaging with you again.

    You haven’t ‘engaged’ as it is, so I don’t know what you have to sulk about! I’ve repeatedly raised logical assertions about the Abbott interview and all you’ve responded with are remarks about the validity of Tone’s opinion on women’s sexual experiences and to call other people liars.

    You aren’t serious about debating this issue otherwise you would of responded to my statement that wholly undermines your repeated assertion that he was only responding as a father in relation to his daughters: what kind of parent uses his daughters virginity for political gain?

  65. And the most important question Employee can’t answer: why did Abbott do the WW interview in the first place? If as Employee observes he gets subjected to question after question about uncomfortable social issues, why give an interview to a woman’s mag where these issues are more than likely to dominate?

    I think Employee was being honest s/he will find it was a puff interview to show off his family in order for political gain. In which case the question of what kind of parent uses his daughters’ virginity for political gain is more than appropriate.

  66. Holden Caulfield

    Jeremy I see that you have not included any source quotes from the Women’s Weekly here.
    That’s not honest Jeremy.
    Lying, like fornicating, is a sin Jeremy.

    Abbot was asked what advice he would give his daughters.
    It’s rather difficult to give asvice for boys to daughters Jeremy.

    Why are you so threatened by this advice anyway?

    Should he simply have said that he’d tell his daughters to shag at will?

  67. The full article is not available online, Holden.

    Jeremy was commenting on the Article by the Australian which has been linked to in the post.

  68. Northern Exposure

    He should have said to the interviewer “I dont think I’ll answer that, thats between me and my daughters.”

  69. Northern Exposure

    I think the reason we’re all ‘threatened’ by his advice because of his oppressive, dangerously backwards, intolerant views on sex and sexuality Holden, and that he is in a position of influence.

  70. You mean because of his common decency, NE. Most parents would give their children similar advice.

  71. Confessions, you do realize that Employee is just Turtle using a different name right?

  72. Northern Exposure

    Northern Exposure // 29 January, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    He should have said to the interviewer “I dont think I’ll answer that, thats between me and my daughters.”

    Northern Exposure // 29 January, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    I think the reason we’re all ‘threatened’ by his advice because of his oppressive, dangerously backwards, intolerant views on sex and sexuality Holden, and that he is in a position of influence.

    I know you abhor reading all the way through things but do try to keep up SB. As to his ‘Common Decency’ I’ve yet to see a shred of common or un-common decency from that man.

  73. The Abbott virginity comment is either one of two things. Either:

    1. a brain snap from a man who has had plenty such lapses in the past, or

    2. a deliberate and calculated attempt to use his daughters virginity to curry favour among conservative voters.

    Either way it’s not the behaviour one expects from an alternative PM.

  74. You know what else is dishonest, “Holden”? Going round other blogs posting comments in my name.

    Feel free not to return.

  75. The man gave a frank and sensible answer to a question put to him. For his trouble he has been vilified by the lying Red Barren and her army of flying monkeys.

  76. Northern Exposure

    Wrong.

  77. He gave a frank answer.

    It just happened to be offensive and stupid.

  78. Northern Exposure

    SB he was jumped up and down on way before Dept PM Gillard got a word in edgewise.

    The fact is he shouldnt have answered the bloody question in the first place. All he’s done is open himself to attack, it was a dumb thing to do.

  79. No, he should’ve answered the question.

    It’s just that his opinion on the subject reveals some very disturbing things about his understanding of women. Maybe he should talk to some who aren’t members of his religious cult.

  80. What he should of said is that conversations about sex between him and his daughters are private matters and something he isn’t comfortable discussing in public. That is precisely what my father would say about me and I’m sure what most fathers would respond with if such a question were put to them in an interview for public consumption. In my experience most men are distinctly uncomfortable talking about their children potentially having sex, which is why I conclude that his answer was either a lapse in judgement due to nerves or whatever, or a deliberate attempt to show his conservative religious views in a family context with a view to wooing voters of that ilk.

    Either way I’m glad he gave the answer he did because now we know how totally pre-Enlightenment his thinking is towards women and our equality within relationships.

  81. Northern Exposure

    We knew that before. He’s used his children in such a Machiavellian way that its beyond comprehension. In terms of trying to win over undecideds he has shot himself in the foot. Again.

  82. The thing is Keri, as parent giving your children advice and guidance about sexuality is not a matter of a parent intruding into their lives it is about being a good mentor. You go on as is it is in some sense wrong for a parent to make the argument for restraint and to offer the advice of their own experiences.
    I quote here from what I said in my own post about the topic

    There is nothing “old fashioned ” about wanting the best for your children or from wanting them to avoid the sort of foolishness and life mistakes that you yourself might have made. As a parent you are obliged to mentor your children about sex and sexuality. I saw this very topic elucidated upon a rather nice DVD last night. A character called Josh (who was 15) was concerned that his girl friend wanted them to have sex and he was worried about taking their relationship “to the next level” his father explained that he would prefer that they did not have sex but gave him a condom as a contingency in the event that Josh and his paramour could not wait. That struck me as a most sensible approach to the matter. As a father all that you can do is to make the argument and then it is really up to your soon to be fully independent offspring to make their own decisions. What irks me about so called progressives like Gillard (and you Keri ) is that they think that a parent should not even make the argument, or try to persuade their children that having indiscriminate sex has significant downsides.

  83. What he’s revealed about his attitudes to women and sex, on the other hand, are thoroughly disturbing.

    What mindless drivel. He was asked about his children and he answered the question in the way most parents would.

  84. What mindless drivel. He was asked about his children and he answered the question in the way most parents would.

    What mindless drivel. Yet another Abbott luvvie who can’t face the uncomfortable truth that the man quite likely played politics with his daughters virginity.

  85. JC, please try to remember that you don’t speak for “most parents”.

    “try to persuade their children that having indiscriminate sex has significant downsides.”

    There’s a bloody long line between “no sex before marriage” and “indiscriminate sex”. “Restraint” and “abstinence” are not the same thing at all.

  86. The thing is I don’t think that Tony Abbott is trying to impose anything upon anyone here. Not his daughters or any other person either.

  87. “What irks me about so called progressives like Gillard (and you Keri ) is that they think that a parent should not even make the argument, or try to persuade their children that having indiscriminate sex has significant downsides.”

    Please point out where I said that, Iain.

  88. “The thing is I don’t think that Tony Abbott is trying to impose anything upon anyone here.”

    He’s just repeating offensive stereotypes about women, from a prominent position, and asking people to vote for him.

    I don’t recall you having a problem with publicity perceived to reflect on other politicians’ values. Didn’t you make a big deal about Rudd accompanying a News Ltd editor to Scores?

  89. Every time you claimed that it is none of a fathers business to suggest that his daughters should remain virgins until they marry you are say that Keri

  90. “it is none of a fathers business to suggest that his daughters should remain virgins until they marry”

    does not equal

    “a parent should not… try to persuade their children that having indiscriminate sex has significant downsides.”

    Like in your post, you’re attempting to conflate abstinence and restraint, and to pretend that “women should remain virgins till they marry” is the same as “women should not have indiscriminate sex”.

    Abbott is arguing for NO SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE. Even you are not arguing for that.

  91. Abbott is arguing for NO SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE.

    The elephant in the room that the religious wingnutosphere can’t bear to face is that Abbott *chose* to answer a question about his daughters’ virginity and first sexual experiences in an interview he knew was intended for public consumption. I am yet to meet a father (including my own) who would do that.

  92. “Every time you claimed that it is none of a fathers business to suggest that his daughters should remain virgins until they marry you are say that Keri”

    Iain, I said no such thing. Which is why you haven’t been able to quote me saying it, because I didn’t.

    And quite frankly, if a woman is an adult, what business IS it of her fathers? And what right does he have to speculate on his daughters virginity in a magazine?

    Where do you draw the line, Iain? At what age is a womans sex life no longer her fathers business?

  93. Keri
    The point is that even when your children become adults you continue to care about their well being.
    and I just do don’t understand why you are so hostile to the idea that any father should care about how their daughter lives their lives. You see this is my problem with the feminist “outrage” from the likes of Gillard and yourself. You both seem to think that being honest and sharing your concerns with your offspring is the same as keeping them in bondage , Like I have said here and in my own post, you may discuss the issues with your children as they grow, you set the examples (if you can ) and ultimately when they do decide to become sexually active you just have to trust that they have learned how to make the intimate aspects of their lives something that is positive and fulfilling.
    In legal terms a parent is responsible for all aspects of their child’s life until they are legally an adult, but even though that coming of age signals a daughters (or son’s)right to autonomy over their “sex life” that does not oblige a parent to automatically approve of everything that they may then chose to do. Strangely you seem to think that it does

  94. “The point is that even when your children become adults you continue to care about their well being.”

    Obviously. Where did Keri, or anyone else, suggest otherwise?

    “why you are so hostile to the idea that any father should care about how their daughter lives their lives. “

    She isn’t, obviously.

    “this is my problem with the feminist “outrage” from the likes of Gillard and yourself.”

    The objection to the insistence on women being virgins before marriage, an insistence with which you do not actually agree yourself?

    “You both seem to think that being honest and sharing your concerns with your offspring is the same as keeping them in bondage”

    No, telling them they should remain virgins until marriage is. And implying that they’re worth “less” (they’ve lost that “gift”) once they’ve had sex is objectionable. A woman’s worth is not in her hymen.

    Seriously, Iain, stop attacking obviously straw versions of what people are saying.

  95. Seriously, Iain, stop attacking obviously straw versions of what people are saying.

    That would only leave him with Noddy Car posts and GIFs.

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