Some Big Lies

Today is the twentieth anniversary of the day the ROC (Regime Oppressing China)* set tanks on protesting students and slaughtered them. The ROC is still in charge, and has spent twenty years indoctrinating young Chinese people with a fanciful version of events (involving Hong Kong sending a tank and America sending a Statue of Liberty – no, seriously) and “disappearing” anyone who would dare disagree (ie, who was there). And of course it’s making damned sure no-one tries any kind of remembrance at the Square itself today.

No-one really expected otherwise, of course. After all, how can a regime apologise for something it would happily do again? (If any students managed to congregate in the square and demand democracy, does anyone doubt the PLA would be happy to re-enact their side of the incident?)

The comments on the ABC story from young Chinese people who’ve grown up hearing the official ROC version of events are illuminating. The following appear to be the best spin/outright lies the regime has managed to concoct in twenty years:

  • “Policemen and soldiers were killed before the civilians”
  • “US sent ‘statue of liberty’ to the square”
  • “Hong Kong hired tank pretending to be Chinese to stir up students”
  • The students were advocating “Western” democracy, which somehow “China was not ready for” (we know this because we asked the peop… wait, that’s the whole point, we refuse to do that.)
  • “the wrong-doing of government does not make some of the organisers, student leaders of the protest who were protected by foreign government then and are now living abroad, totally innocent.”
  • “those demonstrations went bad when west jumped into it”
  • “no government in the world is perfect”
  • Doesn’t matter – “Do many of you realise that a lot of Chinese (and i do mean a lot) don’t give a rats about the events on that day because they have prospered – and that includes people who were actually there!”
  • “Has the US ever apologised for the atroctites their troops committed in Vietnamand their interference in political cultures in some many parts of the world?”
  • “China remains a bogeyman and an easy target for media outrage.”
  • “I don’t see how you can criticise the actions of some governments without examining the actions of those you elect to act on your behalf.”
  • “the Chinese people don’t want to talk or worry about this incident, because it could be considered degrading to their country and people.”
  • “every government would use army to protect their power.”
  • “At least Peoples Liberation Army did not go there to detroy a country like International Police U.S.A simply because Iraq doesn’t want to listen to George W.Bush. and They want the oil on the other hand.”
  • “In a relativistic society, we can’t say that democracy is morally better than a dictatorship”
  • “I feel like to vomit when someone pretend to be humanitarian when their ancient invaded in to China and killed millions people there.”
  • “This news is 20 years old. get over it and move on. China has.”
  • “Some people may argue human rights above all else, but for people like myself, $$$ and food on the table ranks so much higher.”
  • “the students occupied the square for more than 2 months, the traffic in Beijing and some other big cities were totally unavailable. The goverment used all peaceful approaches to let them leave, but they didn’t. Even in the middle night of 4/6/89.”
  • “some people killed policemen and soldiers in a brutal way at first, I have to ask, if policemen or soldiers being deadly attcked in Australia, will they SHOOT?”
  • “the students and those so called’leader’ in the square didn’t appeal in a reasonable way. what they want is change the government. it’s not acceptable by all Chinese people.”
  • “how a sovereign state conducts its own domestic policy and actions is its business and no-one elses not even Americas!”
  • “The reporters need to report something so that to keep their job. That’s all I can see in this piece of junk. What a waste of tax-payer’s money”
  • “If you have ever read the ancient history of China,you might understand why government crackdowned the protest,those protest damaged the entire city,even the whole nation for more than 7 weeks,China was on the verge of splitting,the final decision was wise.Students ‘ aim is good,but they forgot their main job is to study.”
  • “All Chinese backs the action taken by party.”

As “Bob Bobbings” retorts to the last one –

(1) You have no idea whether this is true or not, because “all Chinese” are not told what happend.
(2) You have no idea whether this is true or not, because “all Chinese” are not asked their opinion.
(3) Even if you were right, the majority does not have a right to kill minorities. Has the Australian government the right to kill all Chinese in Australia, if the population developed its racist tendency, and supported it? Obviously not.

Democracy is not a “western value” – it is a universal principle, that governments should represent their people. Anything short of democracy is a group of tyrants doing what they want without their people’s permission.

But it’s amazing what you can trick people into believing if you control every source of information and brutally punish anyone who steps out of line, isn’t it?

*Yes, I know that is also the acronym of Taiwan. But “Politicians Repressing China” doesn’t work as well.

25 responses to “Some Big Lies

  1. Just FYI its the PRC (People’s Republic Of China).

    ROC (Republic Of China) is Taiwan.

  2. I know – but my acronym was different.

  3. Surely it wouldn’t be that hard to make up another acronym that actually makes sense.

  4. Calling it the “Regime Oppressing China” doesn’t make sense to you?

  5. But but, you’re a lefty. Check.

    China is a communist country and is therefore a lefty. Check

    Why do you love the oppressive Chinese regime Sear?

    signed

    A. Bolt

  6. “Calling it the “Regime Oppressing China” doesn’t make sense to you?”

    No, because you quite clearly tried to play on the acronym of the country name, but used the wrong country.

  7. So it does make sense, you just don’t like the implied reference.

    Anyway, back to the subject of the post.

  8. Tiananmen square censorship – No search results found.

    Did you mean “cinnamon square sensor chip”?…

  9. So it does make sense, you just don’t like the implied reference.

    No, the implied reference is what doesn;t make sense Jeremy.

    Come on, we all know you get this. You don’t even have to admit your ignorance, just think of a new acronym for PRC and it will be a better post.

  10. Yobbo

    What about PRiCks?

  11. Do you actually have a point, Yobbo? Or are you just looking for another quick gotcha?

  12. Yobbo, it’s just a coincidence that Regime Oppressing China has the same acronym as Taiwan. It doesn’t matter. It has little to do with the post. If you can’t address the substance, then rack off.

    If you’re desperate for one that has the same acronym as Communist China, there’s “Politicians Repressing China” – but it’s not quite the same.

    I’ve put a note on the post addressing your concern.

    And now back to discussing the post.

  13. I can see it now, Sensai timmeh blech congratulating Yobbo-san, “You have done well grasshopper, you have taken the first step on the path to enlightement”. (Or should that be irrelevance?)

  14. The truly depressing thing is, this is the regime we’re trading ourselves into subservience to. Give it another 10 years or so, and China will have the worlds largest economy – and the political clout that comes with it.

    Who said Communisim had been defeated at the end of the Cold War???

  15. Communism is an ideal, one that Marx, Engels and others theorised about and it is a beautiful dream. I believe that human nature is full of very good and very bad and everything in between. You only need a few very bads in powerful positions in a communist state for the whole state to go very bad, Stalin in Russia anyone? I do not think the Peoples Republic of China is Communist, it is state capitalism. I too am concerned what will happen when the PRCis the world’s largest economy and starts to call the shots.

  16. Marek Bage

    Democracy is not a “western value” – it is a universal principle, that governments should represent their people.

    Wow! What a statement!
    What a politically Chauvinistic statement.

    Are you absolutely sure that we’ve run the gamut of political structures and “democracy”, or your version of it, is the winner for the rest of eternity?

    Are you sure that your preferred political system is the right one for every human being or social group walking this planet?

    What about spirituality? Have you got the same sense of certainty towards how mankind should organise itself spiritually?

    What happens if people want to believe in what you and I might consider to be ridiculous?
    Are they lesser people for their beliefs?

    What happens if people want to be ruled in manner that you and I consider to be less than our ideals?
    Does that make them lesser people?

    It’s a funny thing this political Chauvinism.
    No Tax, Hands Off Government Libertarianism = Bad.
    Pro Tax, Helping Hand Government Democracy = Good.
    Pro Tax, Authoritarian Government = Bad.

    Funny how where we’re sitting is always the best place to be!

    I wonder if the majority of Chinese would think that they are an oppressed people who live in a shitty country just because they don’t get to wack off to the same Net-porn as the Americans do.
    I also wonder if the majority of Chinese would think that they are deserving of your pity because after 4500 years of cultural existance some guy in a country that was stolen 225 years ago reckons he’s got it all sussed.

    Perhaps you should re-read the comments left on the ABC site and consider that they might be valid , or at least heartfelt opinions, rather than dismissing them as worthless iterations of communist propaganda.

    Should you decide to listen to what the Chinese have to say about themselves, their culture, their pride and their aspirations, including those things with which you might disagree, then perhaps you’ll understand how arrogant and patronising you’re being.

    Cheers.

  17. The Bolt blogger who thought Dutch courage was an Amsterdam beer—a true story!

  18. That’s ridiculous, Marek. “Democracy” would involve the Chinese GOVERNMENT listening to what the CHINESE PEOPLE have to say about themselves, their culture, their pride and their aspirations.

    “Democracy in China” doesn’t mean doing what we westerners would like. It means doing what the Chinese people would like.

    Anything short of democracy means, by definition, the Chinese people HAVING NO SAY IN THEIR GOVERNMENT.

    I don’t think our version of “democracy” is perfect, although it’s vastly better (read: more representative) than America’s (since without preferential voting no third party can ever get established). But the point is that if people don’t get ANY opportunity to have their say, then their government does not represent them. In which case, from where does its legitimacy derive?

    It’s not “arrogant” or “patronising” to demand that the Chinese people – and everyone else – have the right to choose their own government.

    How do YOU know what Chinese people think or say? Their government doesn’t let them say it. It shuts down their blogs, it punishes them for criticising it. To apologise or make excuses for that – to pretend that it’s what the Chinese people want, or have chosen – is frankly appallingly insulting to Chinese people. The paternalism is their government TELLING THEM what they think without asking them.

  19. Marek:

    What happens if people want to believe in what you and I might consider to be ridiculous?

    They should be allowed their beliefs, along with everybody else, who should be allowed their different beliefs.

    The problem comes when a majority of people want a system that doesn’t guarantee everybody else’s rights. Like that the minority black population should be enslaved. Or that women should not be educated, or that gays should be persecuted.

    What happens when a group of spiritual people go to live in their own spiritual wonderland? The adults may choose to freely submit themselves to religious rule, but what of their children? What of those who get sick of it and want freedom again? Can the majority oppress the minority?

    It is hard to envision a system that doesn’t have basic freedoms that is not oppressive.

    Tiannamen Square is a no-brainer. Perhaps the people who really believe that the demonstrators had it coming to them, that they deserved to be murdered, are really decent people. I think they are at best wrong, and more likely stooges.

    Basic human rights are values that we should hold dear. We should stand up for people, like the demonstrators in Tiannamen Square who are oppressed regardless of your special pleading.

  20. Pingback: Femmostroppo Reader - June 5, 2009 — Hoyden About Town

  21. Which side are you on Marek, the man or the tanks:

  22. Sorry, image here.

  23. Marek Bage

    Which side are you on Marek, the man or the tanks.

    Ah!! The ubiquitous binary decision!
    Kinda like; you’re either with us or against us.

    Well in this instance, and any other like it, I’m with the man.

    The point of my rant above was to remind readers that;

    1/. Absolute freedom is not the best way to organise human affairs.

    2/. Absolute democracy is a shibboleth.

    3/. And, most importantly for me, those Chinese that show pride in their country are not stooges of the Commie Party or ignorant peasants who need our pity.

    Being called to dinner, must go otherwise my Supreme Leader will punish me.

    to be continued……..

  24. Marek, I agree with 1, 2 & 3, but note:

    1. Freedom is a good thing and should be maximised, limited only be the restrictions necessary to allow others to enjoy equal freedom and basic human rights;

    2. On the line running from total anarchy to totalitarian control of all aspects of our lives there is a space where free speech, rule of law and representative government meet. That space may not be as small as some imagine, and may admit of many variations, but it is preferable to anything else.

    3. Making up bullshit excuses for the violent repression of protesters and other abuses of human rights is contemptible no matter what the motivation.

  25. Marek Bage

    My brother has just flown in from Canada and there is no way I’ll be able to devote the time to respond properly.

    SB and, especially, Jeremy, I’m sorry for raising this contentious issue and then doing a runner.
    I wish to defend my positions and address yours, but not now.

    I’m sorry. I really appreciate your opinions and want to engage with them.
    I promise to write a proper defense of my thinking on this matter.
    Perhaps we can pick up the topic later.

    Cheers.

Leave a comment