Remember the other day when I commented on the way we make up for any budget shortfall by taking further from those who can least afford it?
Well, Topeka, Kansas, has found a way to punish the vulnerable at an even crazier level than you might previously have believed possible:
The Topeka City Council on Tuesday voted to repeal the city’s law against misdemeanor domestic battery, the latest in a budget battle that has freed about 30 abuse suspects from charges.
One of the offenders was even arrested and released twice since the brouhaha broke out Sept. 8.
I like that when they look at ignoring crimes to save space in the jails, they start with violent crimes targeted at woman and children rather than, say, drugs offences that do not affect people other than the offender.
Topeka, Kansas. Where they save a few bucks by letting people beat their wives.* Bravo, America. Bravo.
*Assaulting someone is still conceivably an offence, even if it’s within the home – it’s just that they won’t bother prosecuting it, as the “misdemeanour domestic battery” charge has been repealed.
Moved On 
Perhaps this should be on the American citizenship test:
In what order should we diminish rights when saving money:
a) to make victims take responsibility for the crime committed against them
b) women
c) criminal classes (you know, people that aren’t rich)
d) immigants who take our jobs
I like that when they look at ignoring crimes to save space in the jails, they start with violent crimes targeted at woman and children rather than, say, drugs offences that do not affect people other than the offender.
Drug offences do effect other people.
Drug users are weak people, both morally and physiology.
They need to be better managed and treated.
Once again hopefully the answer lies in science and is in the not so distant future.
Imagine a pill or a shot that will turn off the “high sensation” and thus illict drugs having no affect on them.
They would then have half a chance to start living a meaningful life.
“Drug users are weak people, both morally and physiology.”
Um, what? Says who? Why is someone “morally weak” if they take drugs? Any drugs? Are you “morally weak” if you smoke? Or if you drink alcohol? According to whom?
“Drug offences do effect other people.”
Not necessarily they don’t. If someone, say, grows their own drug and uses it privately, who else does it affect?
“Imagine a pill or a shot that will turn off the “high sensation” and thus illict drugs having no affect on them. “
Imagine a pill that took away orgasm. Or any other pleasure in life. Wow, sounds great.
“They would then have half a chance to start living a meaningful life.”
Patronising git.
Sticks and stones…. your better than that.
I just want to see an end to the carnage that drugs are wreaking on our society. I want people to be the very best that they can be. To suceed. To win. To live a life that is truly rewarding and fulfilling without the need of drugs.
I have no vested intrest other than a love of my fellow man and woman.
However I suspect that you deal with many of these people in your business life. I cant believe that you wouldn’t want to see an end to the misery, the deceit, the illness and the broken family relationships that are a direct result of illicit drugs.
Bullshit.
You’re big on the absolute assertions based on no evidence whatsoever, aren’t you?
“the deceit, the illness and the broken family relationships that are a direct result of illicit drugs.”
Not just illicit drugs, I bet alcohol is the number one drug that breaks family relationships, and I know that tobacco kills twice as many as all other drugs combined.. Rail against users of alcohol and tobacco then I might pay some attention to your stance on illicit drugs.
“I like that when they look at ignoring crimes to save space in the jails, they start with violent crimes targeted at woman and children rather than, say, drugs offences that do not affect people other than the offender.”
It’s the American way, war on drugs, war on terror etc etc,
“I just want to see an end to the carnage that drugs are wreaking on our society.”
I think you’ll find most of the damage to society related to illicit drugs is from the “War on Drugs”.
Quite right Jeremy. Drug addiction is essentially a medical problem. Criminalising it seems only to have made matters worse.
Both progressives and conservatives seem to mistakenly believe that the law is generally effective as an instrument of social control and that governments can always, by their interference, improve the lives of citizens. There is not enough critical examination of the limits on what can be achieved by governments and their laws. More often we are overwhelmed with reflexive calls for new legislation and policies every time some unctuous idealist has another fragrant thought-bubble pop out of their rectum and into their otherwise vacant head.
truefamilies…
Last week you were calling for a “final solution” to the homosexual problem, using some unspecified “science” to protect gays from persecution by eliminating them . No more homos means no more homophobia, right?
https://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/how-far-weve-come/
Today you are calling people “morally and physiologically” inferior and envisioning a glorious future where you can force them to do what you want with pills or injections. So what’s next, forced sterilization and re-education camps?
You are a sick, twisted person.
Truefamily? Nah, more like the Manson family.
(Try running your line with these fellas, it may go down better…
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/f72/)
Uh, not keen on links to stormfront from this blog.
I to belive that results from the War on Drugs has failed.
And until science comes up with an answer such as a shot that will deaden the ‘high’ then our only way forward is using current treatment methods.
So yes divert the money spent on helicopters, machine guns and imprisonment and spend it on treatment, treatment and more treatment with generous amounts of love and support.
We have a responsibility as a civilised community to look after our weak and fallen brothers and sisters.
But it goes on beyond just being reactive. We also need to instill enough confidence in our young to the have the ability to say no when offered drugs.
We have to dismantle the drug inspired teen cultures. We have to show that ‘Thug Life’, and identifying as a ‘stoner’ or ‘raver’ are limiting. We have to show young people that they have opportunities beyond their present day thinking.
We have to return to true family values and a sense of real community.
Truefamilies your entire thesis is flawed. The ‘pop a pill’ to solve everything habit is what is causing the increasing prevelence of chronic disease in our communities, which have a far greater burden on the economy and families and individuals than illicit drugs. You advocating yet another pill to solve what are social issues is advocating for more diverted responsibility. It is time people like you own up to your share of blame for the real health crisis out there, and hint it has nothing to do with illicit drugs.
“It is time people like you own up to your share of blame for the real health crisis out there, and hint it has nothing to do with illicit drugs.”
Don’t give me hints. Tell me what the problem is.
I am more than happy to take partial responsibilty for this crisis. I want to be part of the solution.
Lets start a dialogue.
Don’t give me hints. Tell me what the problem is.
I did. Why don’t you read the whole post again and see if you can spot it.
Why start a ‘dialogue’ if you only want quick, snappy ‘science can fix it all with a pill’ solutions.
True families has said a lot of silly stuff on this blog and indeed on this thread.
But the idea of having pursuing pharmacological treatments for drug addiction really isn’t that outrageous. Indeed, does anyone here seriously think that methadone programs for heroin addicts are a bad thing, for instance?
And this, narcotic, is an absurd exaggeration. Our societal problems with chronic disease are a symptom of increased longevity (ironically), poor diets, sedentary lifestyles, high stress environments, with the ‘pop a pill habit’ WAY down the list. Certainly over reliance on prescription medications does NOT do more harm than illicit drugs, and wouldn’t even if they were made legal.
Jordan – there are already drugs to combat drugs, the problem is it doesn’t solve anything. The point I was making was the ‘quick fix’ is the issue. Truefamilies ramblings of just popping a pill and everything will be fine. People not taking the time, energy and effort – and that includes people that stand by and point fingers at vulnerable people that get caught up in drugs.
There are pharmaceutical solutions to drugs, the problem is the drugs aren’t the issue. Most chronic drug users (the sort i might see in the ED) are self medicating or escaping or lost down the rabbit hole. Take, for example, heroin which has one of the harshest forms of addiction due to a physiological change at the neuron level. Naloxone (or some other antagonist) will be effective within seconds, after which Buprenophrine or some another agonist will help with withdrawal (or complete sedation with the ROD method – although this can be dangerous). The point being, that drug use is generally a symptom. Treating the cause is hard work.
There is no need to patronise me on the causes of chronic disease which you have also grossly over simplified; nevertheless, the pill popping attitude that I pointed to, which leads to laziness and lack of self-responsibility and action, is a major cause. Paracetamol for example is a leading suspect in irritable bowel syndrome and CFS.
I wasn’t intended to patronise, sorry, but I really think you could have phrased your argument better, at the very least.
You stated: “the ‘pop a pill’ to solve everything habit is what is causing…”
Not “a cause”, but “is what is causing”, which carries the connotation of only or at least major / highly significant cause. And its simply not. You go on to make the statement about chronic disease, which while I think is technically accurate by itself, taken with the first part of what you said implies ‘the pop a pill habit’ does more damage than illicit drugs. That’s clearly wrong. I’m a pretty strong liberal on drug policy; I would legalise all recreational drugs tomorrow, if in power. But they don’t cause zero harm, and if there were more effective low side-effect medications available to help treat addictions, that would be a good thing. I mean, is anyone opposed to research into creating pills that help people quit smoking (which doesn’t have the stupid irrational war on drugs being waged against it)?
But there aren’t especially good pharmaceutical “solutions”. For one instance, Heroin, Naloxone doesn’t do shit for the actual addiction, and the agonists surely “help” physical withdrawal, but that doesn’t make them anything like an ideal cure.
I’m intimately familiar with the degree of self-medication amongst drug users. But that doesn’t mean the drugs themselves contribute nothing to the problem. Someone with an untreated mood disorder with co-morbid alcoholism doesn’t get magically better if the alcohol goes away, but the alcohol evidently makes the situation worse. The same is true of other drugs.
Do you mean people’s over reliance on pharmaceuticals to cure their medicine *causes* laziness etc leading to health problems – they think they don’t have to look after themselves? I find this really implausible as a leading cause of chronic disease (obviously the effect does exist.)
Or do you think people are more lazy, self-responsible etc, part of which manifests as wanting to pop a pill, and also leads to e.g. less exercise and hence more diabetes? This seems far more likely, but also much vaguer, and not so much the fault of the pills.
And its a bit of a non-sequitur to the second sentence. Paracetamol may well cause CFS or irritable bowel as a side effect, but surely its not because it makes people lazy instead of…. taking self-responsibility for their headaches?
People who start using illicit drugs for chronic pain would be such a tiny percentage of drug users.
Those who are down the supposed ‘rabbit hole’ are a large percentage of the morally weak I refer to.
These people might be temporarily broken, but with real effort they can be fixed.
In life there are some people who seek solutions and some who offer up excuses. Worse still there are people who profit and revel in the disfunctional status quo. Which one are you narcoticmusings?
Ugh, my most recent comment stuck in moderation, and of course truefamililes comes along and starts being even extra-objectionable, naturally.
People self medicate for many reasons besides chronic pain.
Oh lets look at all the objectionable things I have said;
the war on drugs has failed,
drug users should be given heaps of treatment,
we should build a better society free of drugs,
I wish there was a medical solution for chronic junkies
As a community member, I take partial responsibility for the drug scurge
So what are these many reasons people use illicit drugs jordanrastrick?
What can we do together to fix them?
“does anyone here seriously think that methadone programs for heroin addicts are a bad thing, for instance?”
I do. Why not just legalise heroin? That way the organised crime groups can’t control it and cut it with shit. People will take drugs, best case scenario is to drop the price and keep addicts healthy and productive.
War on drugs is an utter failure, time to try something else, I advocate legalising all drugs.
“So what are these many reasons people use illicit drugs jordanrastrick?”
Recreation? People drink for recreation after all..
Apologies Jeremy, feel free to remove the link. Netiquette fail?
“So what are these many reasons people use illicit drugs jordanrastrick?”
Depression, anxiety, chronic nausea, mania/bipolar, ADHD…
And then there’s people like me who use drugs because i enjoy them.
I have smoked pot almost every day for at least the last 15 years, and have used psilocybin mushrooms a number of times in the same period. Not because i need them, not to sooth some inner pain and certainly not because i am an addict. I like them, they are fun and are a positive influence on my life.
I am not a weak person, morally or physiologically, nor am i “down the rabbit hole”. Neither, in my opinion, are most people who use drugs recreationally, or even habitually.
Yes, some people have a problem with drug addiction, but some people also have a problem with alcohol, food, gambling, tobacco, and even sex. But many of the problems supposedly caused by drug use are, in fact, caused by the criminalization of something that is a personal choice, and no business of the state.
The way to “fix” the drug problem is to legalize all drugs, regulate supply to ensure quality and purity and tax them at similar levels to alcohol and tobacco.
Deal with the problems of addiction as they arise (as we already do) and punish those who commit crime to pay for their drugs, by all means. But leave the rest of us otherwise law abiding and productive members of society who DO enjoy using drugs to get on with living our lives in the manner we see fit.
So long as we don’t interfere with anyone else’ right to do the same, what exactly is the problem?
Lets start a dialogue truefamilies….
“I do. Why not just legalise heroin?”
They’re not mutually exclusive, and indeed I’ve already advocated both on this thread.
Also, agree with pretty much all of what Duncan says.
I have a problem with the methadone program because it is arguably a worse drug than heroin, why not just give addicts clean heroin?
It shits me that the powers that be let us legally take two of the nastiest drugs known yet we can’t even smoke pot (legally)!!!
“The way to “fix” the drug problem is to legalize all drugs, regulate supply to ensure quality and purity and tax them at similar levels to alcohol and tobacco”
++
duncan1978 you have been using dope everyday for 15 years and you believe you aren’t addicted?
I can’t even begin to fathom that. Everyday. All the Xmas days, funerals, birthdays and weddings where you have been high.
I believe that you are kidding yourself if you dont think your an addict but admire your bravery in admitting this.
I hope when you are ready, help is available. Maybe your admission in this thread is the first step. I am glad to have been part of it.
We could talk offline, I think I could help you.
“I can’t even begin to fathom that. Everyday. All the Xmas days, funerals, birthdays and weddings where you have been high.
I believe that you are kidding yourself if you dont think your an addict but admire your bravery in admitting this.”
You need to prove that pot is addictive.
“We could talk offline, I think I could help you.”
LOL – Can you get cheap weed?
“I hope when you are ready, help is available. Maybe your admission in this thread is the first step. I am glad to have been part of it.”
How condescending are you?
Look at truefamilies trying to present himself as some sort of drugs counsellor.
Here’s a hint for you TF – characterising drug users as “morally weak” identifies you for the charlatan you are.
No I am not trying to present myself as some sort of drugs counsellor or infact any type of counsellor.
I am however not the type of person who walks past someone past out and face down in the gutter. Duncan I believe is at risk of falling face first any minute. You cant do what he has done for 15 years without some sort of consequence. Duncan I believe is both morally and physically weak, I am just extending my hand as I would to anyone else here.
“Duncan I believe is at risk of falling face first any minute. You cant do what he has done for 15 years without some sort of consequence.”
If you are going to troll on a topic you know nothing about, at least do a little homework TF. You clearly know nothing about the effects and side effects of cannabis.
“Duncan I believe is both morally and physically weak, I am just extending my hand as I would to anyone else here.”
YOU think you can help ME? Hilarious!
What do you base your judgment of me as being “morally weak” on exactly? I am married, employed, i own my own home on acreage and am very satisfied with my life. Please demonstrate where my “moral weakness” is displayed.
And as for me being physically weak, i work in agriculture. I lift weights and train in boxing, and won a partial scholarship in my younger days to the Australian institute of Sport for Olympic weight lifting.
“duncan1978 you have been using dope everyday for 15 years and you believe you aren’t addicted?”
Would you classify someone who has a few beers after work as an alcoholic TF? Are you concerned that someone who can’t function without their coffee or their smokes is spiraling out of control into a deviant lifestyle?
I work in a physically and mentally demanding job. When i get home i like a spliff and a few quiet drinks.
Once every few years i go out in the pines and find a few subaeruginosa mushrooms and make some tea. I find the experience mentally and spiritually refreshing, and i use the calm of the next day to reassert the positives in myself, and to examine my failings and my true motivations. It is almost always a very pleasurable and constructive experience.
I feel sorry for you that you will never experience these things TF.
You obviously can’t differentiate between a drug addict and a drug user. However, I truly believe that, if we come together on this, i could help you pull your head out of your arse.
Let’s work together towards a brighter tomorrow True Families. I know we can do it, if you only believe…
You seem very intelligent, yet quick to anger.
If not for yourself, do it for your wife. Stop putting her through this.
She must be very strong and must takes her wedding vows very seriously. Good on her.
I hope she is still there when you inevitably face up to your addiction.
I think the likes of truefamililes mean well, but just don’t have the life experience of knowing enough people with serious drug problems, and enough regular drug users that cope perfectly well in life, to know the difference between the two.
You seem very intelligent, yet quick to anger.
I think he has been very measured in his reply, considering you called him “morally weak”. If you are going to insult someone, don’t feign surprise when they are offended.
And this “I can help you” shit is the height of arrogance. Are you a Christian by any chance? That would certainly explain your moral superiority complex and the offer of help to a person you don’t know, who hasn’t asked for it and doesn’t need it.
I’m not sure he means well. I think he’s taking the piss.
Well, poe’s law…..
Winners don’t do drugs
– Billy Sessions (Someone from the FBI.)
Anyone remember that? (Late 80s arcade gamers might.)
“Indeed, does anyone here seriously think that methadone programs for heroin addicts are a bad thing, for instance?”
Actually I do. We’d be better off giving people heroin, (or maybe bufomorphine.) Methadone withdrawal is far worse than heroin withdrawal, and (anecdotally I admit) contributed to making some people’s heroin habits worse. Then again yesterday I spoke to an ex heroin (current b/m and methadone) user who is in the process of becoming a drugs counselor, who said that everyone they knew who didn’t use methadone was either dead or had a lifelong habit… so I don’t necessarily want to argue the point, but I do think there are serious problems that go with methadone that should be considered.
And I just want to point out for the moral crusaders that the relationship between childhood sexual abuse and serious drug (and probably alchahol) addiction is a strong one, something like three quarters of heroin addicts have suffered childhood sexual abuse, and many others some other serious trauma.
And pot isn’t as addictive as my morning coffee.
I’m totally hooked on caffiene, if I get to work and there’s a problem with the coffee machine I get shitty, well, I used to, know I just make a plunger, not as good, I imagine plunger to espresso is like methadone to heroin??? 😉
“And pot isn’t as addictive as my morning coffee.”
It wouldn’t surprise me if that were true, I get shitty if I don’t get my morning coffee.
I basically gave up pot when our baby was born. Not totally, but I don’t smoke much at all these days. I’d probably smoke a couple of joints in a week if I’m smoking heaps. But coffee… no way I’m giving that up. And plunger coffee … I imagine thats more like a panadine forte compared to heroin… what a waste of time.
Coffee is like heroin tho in that it has withdrawal symptoms. Pot … well maybe it has some – slight irritation and insomnia for a day or two, but coffee gives you headaches, more irritability and stupidity/impaired brain function when you stop. The legal drugs, coffee, tea to a tiny extent, but especially alcohol and tobacco have major withdrawal symptoms if you use them daily.
I have a family member who has had a heroin habit for nearly 20 years. When he has heroin its not like he’s having a private party. He has it to feel normal, to function like a human, especially if he has a habit at the time. Failure to have it, or some substitute leaves him debilitated and unable to do most tasks. I’d rather see doctors prescribe heroin for people than have the situation we have now. Even if every other drug was left illegal, making prescription heroin legal would be a good thing imo, just because it’d enable people who are junkies to be able to live normally. Then they could deal with their issues without the added stress of supplying their habit every day just to be able to function.
BTW without (non heroin) drugs where would all your iphones and ipads be? What about mouse interfaces or the internet for that matter. It was psychedelic drug use that basically enabled most of modern technology, and much of our modern worldview. From Crick and the double helix to the founders of Apple and their visions for i gadgets that are extensions of human nervous systems and all the software in between. Game theory and systems theory are (according to Tim Leary) heavily influenced by the likes of Herman Kahn and their experiences on acid. etc etc
Bizarrely enough that positive drug story Hicks joked about actually happened a couple of years ago: