Melbourne to India: it’s a bloody murder! Of course we’re taking it seriously.

An Indian student was stabbed to death in West Footscray on Saturday. Because it has happened before, the Indian Government has threatened to issue “an official warning” to people about travelling to Melbourne, and is demanding that the culprit(s) be found:

India strongly condemned the fatal stabbing of a 21-year old Indian graduate in Australia and said Monday the incident could affect bilateral ties.

External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna called on Australian authorities to speedily find and charge those responsible for Saturday night’s attack on Nitin Garg, saying that Indian students in Australia were increasingly targeted with violence.

I’m sorry – what? What did they think we were going to do? Of course the police are going to do everything in their power to catch the murderers. What makes India think they wouldn’t?

And what’s the evidence that Indian students are victims of this violence more than anyone else?


Police – we do have them, even though it’s impossible to actually prevent all violent crime from occurring.

The Age went and transcribed a series of the more outrageous responses to the incident on Indian news websites:

‘‘I am an Indian occupying a reasonably responsible position in Australia, but I can state without any doubt that this is a racist country, which discriminates Indians on every count,’’ James wrote.

‘‘Well can’t blame the Aussies,’’ wrote Daffy. ‘‘They started as a bunch of thugs, killed the Aborigines and now they continue to do same.’’

Sunny commented: ‘‘In India, target these criminals and teach them a lesson’’.

Neck Breaker said: ‘‘Ban over flight of Qantas through Indian air space. Ban all imports from Australia. Ask British to de-colonise Australia or India does it. These white dogs understand only one language, kick in the face … ’’

Isn’t it terrible when the actions of a few nutbags are used to smear an entire country?

If there’s a problem with knife crime in Melbourne, it’s most likely linked to the closing down and underfunding of mental health facilities over the last twenty years, not racism. (If there’s some evidence that Australia was less racist twenty years ago, I’d be interested to see it.) If Indian students do turn out to disproportionately be victims of those sorts of unhinged attacks, it may well be for very straightforward reasons – the fact that there’s a disproportionate number of them with late-night service jobs who are often travelling in poorer areas of the city in the small hours of the morning, where such attacks are more likely.

Meanwhile, it’s not like India has some magic wand to rid itself of violence.

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92 responses to “Melbourne to India: it’s a bloody murder! Of course we’re taking it seriously.

  1. “…often travelling in poorer areas of the city in the small hours of the morning, where such attacks are more likely.”

    Yes all people who don’t live in the Eastern suburbs are knife wielding maniacs.

  2. That’s an entirely reasonable interpretation of that point! Well done.

  3. What other interpretation could there be after your brilliant argument that being ‘poor’ meant you had a greater propensity to stab people?

  4. Sorry, what argument?

    You can distinguish between “being ‘poor’ meant you had a greater propensity to stab people” and “poorer areas of the city in the small hours of the morning, where such attacks are more likely”, right?

  5. “An Indian student was stabbed to death in West Footscray on Saturday”

    You know, if the house next to that Hungry Jack’s goes up for sale all of a sudden the Hungry Jacks would be in Yarraville !

    Seriously:

    “I’m sorry – what? What did they think we were going to do?”

    They know it will be investigated properly, they (politicians) are making statements that their electorates want to hear, they’re responding to their media, just like all politicians do.

    “Isn’t it terrible when the actions of a few nutbags are used to smear an entire country?”

    Bog standard reactions from the ignorant, Australia has it’s problems but India….Hello?

    “If there’s a problem with knife crime in Melbourne, it’s most likely linked to the closing down and underfunding of mental health facilities over the last twenty years, ”

    Agreed – crime is a socio-economic issue, then more poor and uneducated the more crime, it’s not rocket surgery.

    “it may well be for very straightforward reasons ”

    I buy the ‘soft-target’ argument, besides when a thug is stomping on your head the fact that he/she is simultaneously calling you derogatory, racist names ought to be the least of your worries.

    It’s wild out in the West, I know, I’m a long time resident of West Footscray, I don’t consider myself a soft target but I don’t wander the streets at night…… without my dog!

  6. I’ve been wondering about this too- is there any evidence to suggest that Indians in Australia are being targetted.

    Yes, we know we have our racists, -but I’m pretty sure they are primarily ‘interested’ in muzzies, ‘refo’s’, ‘Lebo’s’ and ‘Abo’s’ . I would have though thtat Indian students weren’t much on their radar.

    And in general, I’d suspect that crime rates in India aren’t lower than here.

  7. “You can distinguish between “being ‘poor’ meant you had a greater propensity to stab people” and “poorer areas of the city in the small hours of the morning, where such attacks are more likely”, right?”

    No tell me what a poor area of the city is then. Clarify.

    Nun’s who avow ‘poverty’ are they more likey to stab you?

  8. No. You’re being silly.

  9. Oh ok I am being silly.
    ________________

    Micheal, I live just off Somerville Road and don’t know what you are scared of? Your neighbours attacking you prehaps?

    Your type breed this fear.

  10. “Your type”?!

  11. I meant RobJ

    “It’s wild out in the West, I know, I’m a long time resident of West Footscray, I don’t consider myself a soft target but I don’t wander the streets at night…… without my dog!”

    Oh I am going to be attacked by the women of the Kingsville Uniting Church auxilary.

    That type!

  12. A letter in today’s Age with Indian crime stats (for those who haven’t clicked on Jeremy’s link):

    “HERE are some statistics for Melbourne’s Indian community. According to India’s National Crime Records Bureau, in 2007-08 India had 32,719 murders (the highest rate in the world). There were also 150,000 deaths by road accident and 5 million crimes. All these are increasing by 2 per cent annually. If the Indian Government wants to issue a ”travel warning”, it should be to leave India for countries such as Australia where life is considerably safer.

    The death of Nitin Garg is sad – but a crime of chance, perhaps, not an attack on a specific culture.”

    I’m getting to the point with me that if they don’t like it here then they can go home. I certainly get the impression that these schools and colleges for many foreign are just an easy avenue to residency.

    I’m sick of hearing Gillard et al kowtowing to the Indian govt and media.

  13. (Why do I get singled out for moderation so often?)

  14. m, you’re so tough,

    Like I say, I don’t even consider myself a victim but the FACT is that somebody got stabbed to death on Saturday night, it’s not a one off either, late last year, Rupert Street young bloke stabbed to death, couple of years ago, NYE, young bloke stabbed to death at Everard/Barkly St… That Doctor, thrown around like a rag doll and beaten to death by young thugs??? That’s straight off the top of my head.

    My mate, you wouldn’t pick him as a soft target, attacked by teenagers on the train in Footscray in broad daylight last year, he gave a good account of himself but still ended up with black eyes.

    I’m not trying to scare anyone, I’m telling you how it is.

    Do you disagree that crime is a result of socio economic conditions are are you claiming that the Western Suburbs are the rich suburbs (hence the trial for stop and search is going ahead at…………..FOOTSCRAY STATION (I wonder why??? ;o) )

    “(Why do I get singled out for moderation so often?)”

    You don’t Dotty, it’s happening to me as well, just something wordpress does from time to time.

  15. “I’m sick of hearing Gillard et al kowtowing to the Indian govt and media.”

    Gillard will Kowtow to ANYONE, (check her statement when Israel invaded Gaza last year).

  16. The last time I was in Melbourne I was gobsmacked at the number of Indians there.

    They’re everywhere. And this isn’t anything racist, it’s a simple observational fact.

    It’s just the law of probability that dictates that one or two of them are bound to walk into a knife sooner or later…

    Mind you, I do think the Government and the Police have been far to quick to point out that the attack was not racially motivated, particularly if the reports are true that his wallet wasn’t stolen..

  17. Rob I am not saying that I am tuff.

    I just reject that the tragic deaths and acts of violence that you highlight are because ‘poor’ people are more prone to sociopathic violence then people who live 20 km’s away and earn 20 k more a year.
    My neighbours are not knife wielding crazies. Nor am I.
    Why should we be imprisioned in our houses because people like you are so henny penny?

  18. “They’re everywhere. And this isn’t anything racist, it’s a simple observational fact.”

    Hang on, you’re noting that a particular race is “everywhere”.

    You might want to rephrase that, because in the current form it certainly does sound racist.

  19. “I just reject that the tragic deaths and acts of violence that you highlight are because ‘poor’ people are more prone to sociopathic violence then people who live 20 km’s away and earn 20 k more a year.”

    Well I couldn’t be bothered trawling for crime stats by suburb so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

    “My neighbours are not knife wielding crazies. Nor am I.”

    Hyperbole. They’re my neighbours too, where did I suggest that our neighbours are knife wielding crazies?

    “Why should we be imprisioned in our houses because people like you are so henny penny?”

    WTF are you talking about? More hype. Do what you like, just don’t kid yourself that everybody out there has good intentions, I’m not scared to leave my house, I’m aware of the risks and I act accordingly.

  20. M,

    Quick question. Can you tell the difference between saying someone is poor and that they’re travelling through a poor area?

  21. “The last time I was in Melbourne I was gobsmacked at the number of Indians there.”

    How many, did you count them and then count all the other ethnicities?

    “And this isn’t anything racist, it’s a simple observational fact.”

    I’m in Melbourne NOW, I can’t see ANY, there’s one in the other room working but I can’t see him.

    ” simple observational fact”

    No, it isn’t. there are lots of Indians in West Footscray (hence lots of yummy food) because so many of them choose to spend their money studying in Australia, this is a good thing, education is worth more than tourism in Australia (this is why Gillard et all are in a tizzy – money trumps everything).

  22. Keri,

    No I have trouble understanding what is a ‘poor area’.

    I asked Jeremy to clarify – and he couldn’t / didn’t.

  23. An area where incomes are low and services are sparse, obviously.

    Are you seriously denying that there’s a link between poverty and crime?

  24. “What other interpretation could there be after your brilliant argument that being ‘poor’ meant you had a greater propensity to stab people?”

    You’re conflating a few things here. Firstly, that poorer areas have higher crime rates because poor people commit crimes, or that Jeremy suggested as much. That’s YOUR assumption. You also assume that Jeremy makes the distinction for a “poor” area as a West/East dichotomy.

    Care to point out where Jeremy suggested that poor people were responsible for higher rates of crime or that the divide is West/East?

    My feeling would be that poorer areas have higher crime rates because they attract criminals – scum always look for an easier mark, and poorer areas are less resourced – in addition to housing them, as every suburb does.

    Which says nothing at all about the character of the people living in the suburb, does it?

  25. M, for your consideration;

    There is no doubt that economic and social disadvantage provide excellent breeding grounds for crime.

    That was from Don Weatherburn, a person whose expertise on this matter is beyond reproach.

    Whilst the majority of poor people are not criminals, it can be said that the majority of criminals are poor people.
    At least so in urban areas.

    Read the article. It’s informative.

    Cheers.

  26. “An area where incomes are low and services are sparse, obviously.”

    Like a small country town such as Wycheproof.

    That mega crime capital of the malle.

  27. Gerard Henderson weighs in. Apparently the attacks are:

    1. somehow linked to the Rudd govt’s refusal to sell uranium to India

    2. Brumby’s fault for not having an Asia Crime Squad & Middle East Crime Squad like NSW does.

    http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/politics/student-assaults-teach-some-harsh-lessons-about-racism-20100104-lq1i.html

  28. “in the current form it certainly does sound racist.”

    How so? If I said white people “were everywhere” wouldn’t that also be a statement of fact.

    Anyway, what I meant was in the CBD there are a lot of Indians.

    Mostly students I imagine, but say compared to Sydney where there are hardly any Indians (compared to Melbourne) it is a noticeable difference.

    But for the record, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

    Australia could be taken over by SE Asians and I couldn’t give two hoots.

    as RobJ states, it would just mean more delicious food!

    And from my experience of Asia and SE Asians, which is considerable (my partner is from Malaysia), Asian folks are usually hard-working, appreciate the value of education and have a a great deal of respect for each other and other cultures.

    White Australia on the other hand……….

  29. Gerard Henderson is getting dumber by the day.

  30. How come my comments are being moderated? I didn’t even use the f word or the c word!

  31. It’s free wordpress. Sometimes it just acts up.

  32. To say Australia is a racist country is pretty rich, coming from India. Last time I looked we didn’t have the caste system.

  33. We’re not meant to criticise developing nations Aussie Unionist.

    It’s not politically correct.

  34. “And from my experience of Asia and SE Asians, which is considerable (my partner is from Malaysia), Asian folks are usually hard-working, appreciate the value of education and have a a great deal of respect for each other and other cultures.

    White Australia on the other hand……….”

    Oh yeah? Malaysians have ‘a great deal of respect for each other and other cultures’.

    Have you actually been there? I am guessing your wife is Malay and not Chinese or Indian Malaysian.

  35. “Have you actually been there?”

    *groan*

    Yes ‘m’ I have been there, about twice a year for the last 15 or so years.

    In fact I own an apartment there, and will be going back there next month.

    “I am guessing your wife is Malay and not Chinese or Indian Malaysian.”

    Wrong. My partner is not my wife, nor is she a ‘she’.

    And not Malay either…

    *rolls eyes*

  36. Assumptions again, M?

  37. roll your eyes all you like.

    I lived in various parts of Selangor for 17 years, so I probably know a little bit more about Malaysia then you do.

  38. sure, whatever…

  39. “Assumptions again, M?”

    What do you mean Keri?

    If you honestly believe that reb has a Malaysian ‘partner’ and that reb owns property over there, then I have a bridge up in Sydney I am looking to sell that you might be interested in.

  40. That’s a fascinating comment ‘m’

    You’ve never met someone with an Asian partner before, nor someone that owns property overseas…??

    Is that such a bizarre and alien concept for your little mind to comprehend?

    What a tiny little world you must live in ….

  41. “If you honestly believe that reb has a Malaysian ‘partner’ and that reb owns property over there, ”

    Yes – what an outlandish claim! ;o)

  42. See RobJ you know nothing of Malaysian culture. Reb wants us to believe that he is expert in all things Malaysian but when tested even a tinsy bit he fails mega.

  43. “See RobJ you know nothing of Malaysian culture”

    What’s your point? Considering we’re talking about the murder of an Indian National in West Footscray.

  44. Yeah that’s right we are.

    And your response….. “there are lots of Indians in West Footscray (hence lots of yummy food)”

    which reeks of colonialism, paternalism and inner urban white lefty triumphalism.

  45. Sort of off topic, I alluded to it in my first post Cruikshank Park is in Yarraville. I would say Hungry Jacks is too considering it’s on the ‘other’ side of Geelong Road. Why is this being reported as West Footscray.

    OK HJs is Kingsville, but the guy was stabbed in Yarraville.

  46. m

    “And your response….. “there are lots of Indians in West Footscray (hence lots of yummy food)”

    which reeks of colonialism, paternalism and inner urban white lefty triumphalism.”

    Man you’re reaching. I like Indian food, is that a crime? there are lot’s of Indians in West Footscray!

    Let’s see on our short shopping strip we have:

    Aangan
    Planet Bollywood
    Dosa Hut
    Bharat Traders
    Two more Indian Restaurants and a couple of Indian groceries.

    I’m stating facts, you’re scraping the barrel!

  47. “Reb wants us to believe that he is expert in all things Malaysian but when tested even a tinsy bit he fails mega.”

    There was a test…?

    I’m an expert…??

    You need help.

  48. “I like Indian food, is that a crime? there are lot’s of Indians in West Footscray!

    Yes thats what you all do. You see a poor person and think they are a criminal. You see an Indian / Asian / Italian etc and you think what type of food can they cook me.

    You elitists have been justifying an entire multicultral policy not based on the humanitarian, economic or societal needs but instead on on what ‘yummy’ kind of food they can cook.

    Even when you try and be humane it’s still all about ‘moi’.

  49. RobJ:”You know, if the house next to that Hungry Jack’s goes up for sale all of a sudden the Hungry Jacks would be in Yarraville !”

    haha

    …also please do not feed the alphabet trolls

  50. Yeah. Wonder who it is? Only appeared in the last few days, been relentlessly obnoxious since.

  51. …also please do not feed the alphabet trolls

    Seconded. It only emboldens the fuckwits.

  52. Noted. thanks. 🙂

  53. Yes lets all just talk amongst ourselves and re-affirm our inner urban whitey world view.

    Circle jerk anyone?

  54. RobJ: Forgot to mention before, but I hope you had a good xmas and new year! 🙂

  55. “…also please do not feed the alphabet trolls”

    Yeah, I fell for it.. sorry 🙂

    Happy new year confessions.

  56. “What do you mean Keri?”

    I mean, M, that you assumed Reb’s partner was Malaysian, and further that they were a certain type of Malaysian. Just like you assumed Jeremy was saying something about West/East dichotomies and that all criminals were poor.

    Which, incidentally, you still haven’t responded to.

  57. obviously obtuse

    I’m surprised at Jeremy’s line on this. I think Australia’s treatment of boat refugees versus its treatment of backpacker overstayers is a good demonstration of Australian racism. I don’t think any other comparable countries do things to refos that we do here.
    Anyone recall Four Corners type exposes on the immigration detention centres? They made me want to both weep and rage.
    If the above demonstrates a pretty hefty australian racism, why assume that these sorts of crimes arent racially motivated?

  58. Keri, reb is telling porkies. I don’t know why and to what advantage, but I doubt he has even ever been once to Malaysia let alone 30 plus times.

    “….you assumed Jeremy was saying something about West/East dichotomies and that all criminals were poor.”

    I am not going to play your silly little word games about geography. He clearly stated that if you travel through a ‘poor’ area you were more likely to be assaulted. You have concocted the false implication in the last part of your statement about ‘all criminals were poor’.

    In one way I think it’s noble that you have come running to the defense of Jeremy, in another way I think it’s well….. pathethic.

  59. “Yes all people who don’t live in the Eastern suburbs are knife wielding maniacs.”

    Your words. You brought up East/West, not Jeremy.

    “What other interpretation could there be after your brilliant argument that being ‘poor’ meant you had a greater propensity to stab people?”

    Your words.

    I’m not playing word games, dear. Just asking you to own what you say. Asking you to stop making accusations you can’t possibly back up is probably too much to ask, as is telling you to stop making a fool of yourself by jumping to conclusions, but we can only do what we can.

    If you make absurd claims and draw ridiculous conclusions you can’t back up, I’ll call you on it. It’s got fuck all to do with Jeremy.

  60. “Your words. ”

    It always is, m is a pathetic debater who attempts to put words in others mouths and fails, miserably.

  61. “Yes all people who don’t live in the Eastern suburbs are knife wielding maniacs.”
    -m

    Yes I mentioned the Eastern suburbs.

    But where did I mention the Western suburbs?

    I mentioned poor people in my next comment.

    You were the one who can apparently read minds and belives that it was me who saw this in the way you describe…….

    “You also assume that Jeremy makes the distinction for a “poor” area as a West/East dichotomy”
    -keri

    own your words, missy, thats good advise.

  62. I’ve been wondering about this too- is there any evidence to suggest that Indians in Australia are being targetted.

    Australian police have said there is no evidence Garg’s murder was racially motivated but conceded that 1447 people of Indian descent were victims of a crime in Victoria in the 12 months to July 2008.

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/india-asks-students-to-take-precautions-in-australia-20100106-lskk.html?autostart=1

  63. “Australian police have said there is no evidence Garg’s murder was racially motivated but conceded that 1447 people of Indian descent were victims of a crime in Victoria in the 12 months to July 2008.”

    That’s all Indians, not just students, I wonder if this is an overrepresentation?

  64. “reb is telling porkies. I don’t know why and to what advantage, but I doubt he has even ever been once to Malaysia let alone 30 plus times”

    Amazing. Simply amazing.

    What do you want, hotel receipts…??

  65. why would reb have hotel receipts?

    I thought he owned an appartment.

  66. *groan*

    I bought the apartment 2 years ago off the plan.

    It has just been completed, which is why I’m going there next month.

    The OC is about to be issued.

    But then, why am I explaining myself to you?

  67. Off the plan eh? Sure you did. Where is this appartment?

  68. “Off the plan eh? Sure you did.”

    You’ve never heard of buying off the plan before, and yet you claim to have lived in Malaysia…??

    LOL!

  69. Still not prepared to detail where this supposed appartment is eh?

    Err, err it’s ah um in… KL.

  70. reb, you’re being trolled, it isn’t worth your time

    “But then, why am I explaining myself to you?”

    Exactly!

  71. The Barkly Street Battler, RobJ comes running to the defense of reb.

    Sweet isn’t it.

  72. The commenter, identifying themselves as ‘m’, gets all demanding over the veracity of others statments regarding their personal circumstances.

    How can we attract a better class of troll?

  73. Start by reading up yourself Michael.

    I have read your blog for months now and it’s uninformed guff.

  74. First warning for trolling, m. There won’t be another.

  75. So Jeremy, what did you get for Xmas other than a new troll?

  76. From The Age:

    High-profile Melbourne priest Father Bob Maguire and suburban youth worker Les Twentyman have called on the person behind the stabbing murder of an Indian student to surrender to them.

    The pair sees themselves as “circuit breakers,” believing the culprit or culprits behind the killing of 21-year-old Nitin Garg might be too scared to give themselves up to police.

    His death in a West Footscray park last Saturday night has sparked talk of bilateral relations between the countries being put under pressure.

    “We could act as circuit breakers,” Father Maguire said.

    “At least the perpetrator would be guaranteed safe passage to the police.”

    Hmmm. What chance the murderer/s will surrender?

  77. “Hmmm. What chance the murderer/s will surrender?”

    Yeah, I think Fr Bob and Les are being a tad hopeful.

  78. Possibly RobJ.

    But it’s not uncommon for someone who has commited such a crime to become so overwrought with guilt that they just walk into a police station and give themselves up.

    Especially if it’s a young offender, first offence type of thing…

    Who knows, can’t do any harm trying I reckon…

  79. From the comments at the LP thread is the suggestion that the majority of Indian victims are men. Is this true? Are there proportionately more men students than women? Or is it that men are in places in greater numbers where opportunistic crime can occur? Interesting.

  80. “Are there proportionately more men students than women?”

    Yeah, I’d say so confessions. Women tend to have a much lower status in India than men.

  81. “Who knows, can’t do any harm trying I reckon…”

    You’re right, and they’re both good blokes. Good on ’em.

  82. speaking of matters sub-continent, the cricket’s a bit exciting isn’t it?

  83. “Yes I mentioned the Eastern suburbs.

    But where did I mention the Western suburbs?”

    “Micheal, I live just off Somerville Road”

    “Oh I am going to be attacked by the women of the Kingsville Uniting Church auxilary.”

    ding ding ding! We have a winner!

  84. Miranda Devine has done her usual spin on this sad death in the Faifax papers.

    Not only does she indirectly try to blame ‘lefty’ criminologists for this attack (is there anything lefties aren’t to blame for in the world of this horrible person) but she says it was clearly racially motivated.

    Why does she get a major syndicated media outlet and you don’t Jeremy?! At least you make sense, most of the time. 😛

  85. Dotty Daphon

    Just to show how stories can be slanted, some media have made a point of reporting that the number of Indian students coming to Australia has dropped over the last twelve months inferring that it’s because of the ‘racially-motivated’ violence.

    A Dept of Immigration spokesman on ABC radio yesterday said that the reason for that was that the Dept had refused around 33% of visa apps (normally 5-6%) last year due to fraudulent information on them.

  86. DD,

    Perhaps the drop off is due to a number of factors – the GFC, the strong Aussie dollar…. etc..

  87. @Dotty, as they say “never let facts get in the way of a good story.”

  88. Just found this:

    Cabbie jailed for schoolgirl’s assault

    An Indian taxi driver who sexually assaulted a teenage schoolgirl trying to get to her grandmother’s house will spend three months in jail.

    Clearly all Indian taxi drivers sexually assault school girls. I’m an Australian so automatically I am racist and think this. (Note this is sarcasm)

    I bet the Indian media doesn’t pick up this story about this particular Indian-born individual. If they did it’d be our ‘racist’ judiciary, no doubt.

  89. There is a local saying in an Indian city that relates to kites. When kites copulate, the act itself lasts a few seconds but they are noisy. The Indian media is like the kites?

    It appears like a case of homicide to me for now.

  90. Skepticus Autartikus

    I am neither a policeman nor a resident of Melbourne’s salubrious western suburbs. However, I have traveled the world, and am a keen student of history of culture. That is why I am so shocked at the silence on a very hideous cultural form of violence in India and Pakistan: dousing people (often unwanted wives) in petrol and setting them alight!

    Don’t be surprised if these assaults and murders are ‘inside’ jobs.

  91. Skepticus Autartikus

    m

    Newsflash hun. Australia never colonized India. In fact Australia was colonized by Britain. OTOH, try being an Indian Dravidian around Indian Aryans!

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