And if more than half of the people of Everton want all Queensland children indoctrinated, why shouldn’t they get their wish?

Good news for Christians in Queensland worried that their kids won’t come to Christianity without regular indoctrination at school – the former head of Scripture Union, “the largest employer of school chaplains in Australia”, has won a seat in the weekend’s Queensland election.

So don’t worry. Your little tyke’s going to be tricked into permanently associating spirituality with Christianity before he or she has finished learning to read.

PS Nice work, Queensland. You know what they say: absolute power… leads to responsive, representative, democratic government. I know you’ve been flirting with giving governments unchecked power for a while – having a unicameral system has always been a great start – but by crushing all effective opposition so they have to beg the government for staff, you’ve really set yourselves up for a glorious return of the Joh era. Enjoy.

(Via Eric.)

69 responses to “And if more than half of the people of Everton want all Queensland children indoctrinated, why shouldn’t they get their wish?

  1. At least you can watch from afar Jeremy. I actually have to live here during Joh II. :-(

    Landslide my ass though – the LNP got less than 50% of the primary vote. Under a proportional system, Labor would have still lost but not been wiped off the map. Another case study for why the current electoral system is unfair to supporters of minority parties – even the KAP are still stuck on 2 seats despite 11% of the vote.

  2. Splatterbottom

    “You know what they say: absolute power… “

    Leads to 20 years of ALP misrule. Then the people show the bastards the door. There is a lesson here for Gillard – if you deceive the voters and foist unpopular policies on them in the name of ‘staying the course’ expect to be shat on at the polls. Scoreboard?

  3. Splatterbottom

    In Qld the ALP ruled 20 of the last 22 years, having absolute control in a unicameral legislature.

    Newman would have been much better off with a majority of 10 rather than 65. Now he will have to deal with a bunch of inexperienced one-term back-benchers.

    Queenslanders had obviously had a gut-full of their devious Premier and let rip at the ballot box. If the ALP feds have any sense they will appoint a leader with some common sense, ditch or defer the carbon tax, or at least drop the price to something approaching the market price, and generally start acting like grown-ups instead of the Greens’ lackeys.

  4. Greens’ lackeys? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! It was acting like “LNP Lite” with pro-corporate privatisation and mining interests that made Labor unpopular. In case you haven’t noticed SB, those aren’t Greens policies. And no, Queenslanders didn’t vote for the LNP’s policies – more than 50% of the primary vote is for “No More LNP Or LNP-Lite”.

  5. Splatterbottom

    Unique, Gillard did the Greens bidding cramming the Carbon Tax up our arses. Now she is going to be rear-ended by the great schlong of justice.

  6. Gillard is not a member of the Queensland legislature. What’s she got to do with it, other than your own personal fetish about being rear-ended? It’s cool that you are so open with your personal sexual preferences, but not very relevant to this discussion.

  7. Splatterbottom

    Unique: “Gillard is not a member of the Queensland legislature.”

    I am giving the ALP credit for maybe understanding that Bligh lost largely because she deceived the electorate and implemented unpopular policies. Even Gillard should be able to grasp that. She should admit she fucked up and stand down like Howard should have done before the 2007 election.

  8. The thing I don’t get about the Queensland election is that the thing that hurt Bligh’s popularity was the privatisation. And so the people who didn’t want state assets privatised voted for the LNP?

  9. In Qld the ALP ruled 20 of the last 22 years, having absolute control in a unicameral legislature.

    Ah. At least you know the “20 years in power” bit’s a lie.

  10. Yeah, I don’t get that either Jeremy – it’s classic “voting against your own best interests”. I do think a large part of the anti-corporate vote went to KAP this time rather than the LNP. KAP may be conservative on social issues but they are hard core commie on economic issues.

    The Greens are completely invisible up here – I didn’t see any campaign material, and only knew the name of the Greens candidate when I turned up to vote. They have to seriously pick up their game at the grass roots. Labor isn’t much better – the LNP are already letter-bombing against Labor in the council elections, 2 days after the state defeat.

  11. Nice work, Queensland

    WTF Lefty!?!!

    The people of Queensland are at fault for Labor’s unpopularity? LOL – it’s that sort of mentality that’s going to see Abbott elected PM in a year’s time.

    The election of a fundamentalist nutter like this Mander clown is a direct consequence of the base politics of Qld Labor and the intense contempt they have inspired amongst such a large majority of Queenslanders. The people may not have voted overwhelmingly for the LNP, but they sure as shit voted overwhelmingly against Labor.

    If this sort of electoral outcome scares you (as it does me) then you should advocate Labor start actually addressing its fundamental malaise instead of running interference for a broken and corrupt party. Single-minded pursuit of power over actual commitment to positive and democratic policy ‘aint a very respectable platform for re-election.

    Labor currently stands for nothing other than its own self-interest. I’d like to see the party gutted and replaced wholesale with a new party of genuine conviction and principle. A party I could actually vote for.

  12. Jeremy, there’s actually talk about that voters are treating female politicians who break promises much more harshly than male politicians who break promises. I don’t know if there’s much credence to it, there was no data presented, but over the last few days it’s been repeated on the TV and in the papers.

    Maybe it’s right, maybe it’s wrong, maybe the negative campaign was a disastrous decision. But the media certainly did their part to keep people uninformed about the real state of QLD. Health is not a disaster. Crime is lower. The deficit was caused by the GFC. And it hasn’t in fact been 20 years since the last Nationals Premier, but 14.

    You wouldn’t know any of that unless you knew where to look and had the desire to find out (which most people don’t).

  13. She should admit she fucked up and stand down like Howard should have done before the 2007 election.

    Of course…I get it now. Implementing policies that you have explicitly stated that you will do (i.e. carbon pricing) is grounds for standing down.
    And before you go off on your tedious rant about “carbon tax”, you know as well as I do that it isn’t. It’s a carbon emission trading scheme with a fixed price period…not a tax at all despite the semantic games played by the media.
    I know you’re a slow learner SB and loathe to stop clutching your talking points to your chest, but it’s time to get that neuron firing.

  14. If this sort of electoral outcome scares you (as it does me) then you should advocate Labor start actually addressing its fundamental malaise instead of running interference for a broken and corrupt party. Single-minded pursuit of power over actual commitment to positive and democratic policy ‘aint a very respectable platform for re-election.

    I’m pretty sure I do that all the time.

    Both big parties are profoundly broken, and it’s an unavoidable part of trying to be a “big party” and get people who want fundamentally different things to vote for you. You try to stand for everything and you stand for nothing.

    Which is why, of course, I advocate for an electoral system that doesn’t lock in big parties, and enables a genuinely democratic parliament.

    What I don’t get about the Queensland voters who switched from Labor because of its privatisation program is why the hell would they go to a party even more committed to privatisation?

  15. Splatterbottom

    Ben: “there’s actually talk about that voters are treating female politicians who break promises much more harshly than male politicians who break promises. I don’t know if there’s much credence to it, there was no data presented, but over the last few days it’s been repeated on the TV and in the papers.”

    That is just ALP bullshit spin. The fact that you see so much of it in the press is a measure of how many journalists are ALP arse-lickers.

    Massive: “And before you go off on your tedious rant about “carbon tax”, you know as well as I do that it isn’t.”

    Do you even know what a tax is, Massive?

    Unfortunately for the government and its dissembling apologists the High Court has considered the issue many times and it is clear on the basis of those cases that the Carbon (dioxide) Tax is indeed a tax. And even more unfortunately for them the Australian people well understand when they are being deceived by their pollies. Just ask Anna Bligh.

  16. You want deception? How about telling the Australian public that indent accountants have ‘audited’ your costings when you know that the letter appointing the accountants specifically tells them not to review or question the underlying assumptions? Or is it only deception when it’s the ALP?

    As an accountant, I will never vote for a party that allows Abbott, Robb, Hockey or Joyce anywhere near the Government’s finances.

  17. What? The Carbon “Diox …” …? Oh, of course – Sydney, Alan Jones. Pretty predictable.

  18. I’m pretty sure I do that all the time.

    Most of the time you do – my apologies for overstating the case above but I get so frustrated to see what I perceieve as a commitment to party rather than commitment to good democratic principle.

    What I don’t get about the Queensland voters who switched from Labor because of its privatisation program is why the hell would they go to a party even more committed to privatisation?

    Here’s the nub as I see it – people don’t care as much about policy as they do about being able to respect and trust their government. When a government lies, or establishes a record of discarding election promises when convenient, they lose both.

    No party will ever have a policy platform that you agree with 100%. You know that eventually you’re going to need to trust your government to “do the right thing” on a range of issues that simply aren’t on your radar at election time, and if you see no evidence that a political party will keep its promises, or that it is grounded in anything other than naked political opportunism, then how could you possibly give them that trust?

    The people of Qld didn’t care about privatisation per se – they cared that Bligh lied to them about her intentions in this area and then refused to properly account for her deceit.

    Same with Gillard and her Carbon Tax – and mealy mouthed bullshit like massive’s comment above (arguing an utterly invalid distinction between Carbon ‘Price’ and Carbon ‘Tax’ all in an attempt to avoid admitting that Gillard broke an explicit promise) simply make the problem worse.

    The Australian people deserve better.

  19. Unfortunately for the government and its dissembling apologists the High Court has considered the issue many times and it is clear on the basis of those cases that the Carbon (dioxide) Tax is indeed a tax.

    So when the fixed price period expires does it magically still remain a tax SB?
    So how much are you going to be taxed? Got a dollar amount?

  20. Splatterbottom

    aslsw: “You want deception? How about telling the Australian public that indent accountants have ‘audited’ your costings when you know that the letter appointing the accountants specifically tells them not to review or question the underlying assumptions?”

    Agreed.The Coalition are financial bozos. It is a balance between their stupidity (obviously Hockey doesn’t even understand the difference between an audit and a report explicitly stated not to be of an audit nature) and Labor’s stupidly profligate expenditure and their wrecking-ball measures like the totally useless carbon tax and letting the unions off the leash.

    Maybe Robb or Turnbull would do better than Hockey or Joyce. Although to give him credit Joyce proved smarter than his critics when he suggested that there was a distant but real possibility of the US defaulting on its debt.

  21. So when the fixed price period expires does it magically still remain a tax SB?

    No – at that point the carbon pricing scheme proposed by Gillard will cease to be a Carbon Tax and will become an ETS.

    But up until that point it will obviously be a Carbon Tax – i.e. the thing Gillard promised voters she would never implement.

  22. Splatterbottom

    Massive: “So how much are you going to be taxed?”

    I don’t know whether I am on the list of 500 biggest “polluters” as the ever devious Gillard has not released the list despite having promised to do so last July. Maybe I will only have to pay the tax indirectly when its costs are passed on.

    Last time Gillard was asked for the list she declined to say even when it will be available, preferring instead to launch an attack on Mrrrrrrrabbit. In fact I can’t remember an ALP politician answering any hard question without starting first with an attack on Abbott.

  23. “That is just ALP bullshit spin. The fact that you see so much of it in the press is a measure of how many journalists are ALP arse-lickers.”

    Ahhhh! SB in his usual delirious confusion about reality.

    So the common knowledge (Fact) that most journalists are in the pockets of the conservative press is just (according to SB) A load of twaddle.

    You are wasting your valuable time here SB, you should be writing the new scripts for Monty Python or indeed the Goon show.

  24. “…is that the thing that hurt Bligh’s popularity was the privatisation. And so the people who didn’t want state assets privatised voted for the LNP?” – AL

    Consistency and predictability (the McDonaldisation of politics?)

    At least the LNP are openly for it.

    Labor made a pre-election pledge that they wouldn’t privatize.

    Should be interesting to see if Newman can hold the LNP rabble together – Labor should have lost the previous election except for the breath-taking incompetence of the qld conservatives.

  25. narcoticmusing

    So the common knowledge (Fact) that most journalists are in the pockets of the conservative press

    As evidenced by the extreme negative press against ALP in Qld and at the Federal level – where they conveniently leave out that Gillard also promised a carbon price – so either way she was screwed. If she hadn’t promised no carbon tax and put in this model, they would’ve claimed she lied b/c she said she’d put in a carbon price. Regardless, the spin is completely partisan. i don’t mind her being called out, I’d just like the occasional balanced fact is all.

    And as further evidenced by the complete absence of negative press around the Baillieu government’s constant breaking of election promises. The most recent of which is the green house gas targets (which were NEVER planned to be achieved through purchasing of permits, rather through growth of green industries that would create jobs rather than Baillieu’s fettish of destroying jobs and contracting the state).

    Where is the scathing press about Baillieu? Where are the Baill-liar jokes? Where are the “Bailieu = bail-on-you” jokes that are so obvious due to his consant absence (unless he is competing with Bush Jnr). Or is that just for female leaders? Or is it just for ALP parties? Either they (the media) are sexist or partisan.

  26. Don’t worry everyone. The state governments in NSW, VIC and QLD should have done their job come Federal election time next year. Julia should just sit back and relax.

  27. Splatterbottom

    Narcotic: “the extreme negative press against ALP in Qld”

    There was still plenty of supportive commentary out there but in the end an extremely bad government was rightly given an extremely negative judgment by the people of Queensland. It was Blight’s decision to go after her opponents in-laws on the basis of precisely no evidence and for that disgraceful cowardly act alone she deserved to lose and to lose badly. Add to that the deceptions and incompetence of her government and it would not be surprising to see bad press.

    I don’t know much about the reporting on Baillieu, but I’ll bet if he has lied or deceived his electorate in any material way he’ll be shown the door at the next election. It has certainly happened to male politicians before. I’m sure the frothing fringe of the ALP would be saying some pretty nasty things about Baillieu.

    “Regardless, the spin is completely partisan.”

    What spin are you talking about, exactly?

    “Or is that just for female leaders?”

    Save that for real and clear cases of sexism. Otherwise most people will just roll their eyes. Howard was (mostly rightly) subject to extremely critical reporting, as was Keating and Whitlam before him.

    You remember the faux outrage at the Coalition calling the PM “Julia”. A quick bit of research found that her own ministers did so commonly as well. And people called other politicians and PMs by their first names. It was just a beat-up. But when Greer, a feminist icon, said Gillard had a fat arse where was the shrieking outrage from the usual suspects then?

    “Or is it just for ALP parties?”

    Seems to me they have an army of arse-lickers shilling for them at Fairfax and the ABC.

    And now that I think of it, Abbott gets a fair shellacking in the media as well. The “negativity” meme has been well and truly rammed home and the mad monk image has stuck.

  28. Thanks J for this post.

    And a small “Observation From a Hill” in Queensland:

    This selection and election of Mr Mander shows how far right the far right of the LNP actually are. I suspect that many who voted in anger for the LNP are not fully aware of what they are in for. Certainly “Do Nothing Newman” managed to totally screw up the finances of Brisbane City Council, but apparently he’s going to “get Queensland back on track”. We await with interest the results of his Premiership. Certainly he and his 76/78 LNP cronies are going to have plenty of developer baksheesh to argue over, they’ll tear themselves apart over how it gets spilt.

  29. narcoticmusing

    I don’t know much about the reporting on Baillieu,
    Because there isn’t any.

    but I’ll bet if he has lied or deceived his electorate in any material way he’ll be shown the door at the next election.

    Define ‘material way’. I think it could be reasonably argued that Gillard promising a carbon price and introducing a carbon price that has a transition period that resembles a carbon tax, is not a ‘material’ breach of her no carbon tax promise, as it is merely a transitional arrangment prior to the ETS – which she promised she would do. It would be irresponsible to just put the ETS in place without transitional arrangements – which people like you would also be caning her for now.

    From the top of my head, here’s a few promises he has broken:
    -a direct promise there would be no job cuts to the public sector (which he promised due to the perceived threat he posed by having many ex-Kennet staff on board with him). In his 2011 Budget Update, he announced 3,600 public service (that is 10%) jobs to be cut.
    -A direct promise in order to win votes to make teachers the highest paid in the country without a drop in their conditions (as their conditions aren’t the best either, so it isn’t like they had traded pay for conditions in the past or anything). Now he is offering 2.5% (which won’t even give pay parity with other states let alone make teachers best paid) and any pay increase above that must be met with “bankable productivity gains” which translates to (based on the suggestions his office have provided) to cuts in conditions.
    -promise to reduce waiting lists in health, particularly for elective surgery – in the last financial year, every hospital’s statement of priorities (the agreement they make with the Health Minister regarding how many services they will provide – this is a public document) shows that all hospital waiting lists have grown substantially.
    -the most recent promise to meet the green house gas reduction targets, whcih this Government has said they won’t do on the basis of the cost of purchasing carbon credits despite that it is public knowledge the emissions targets were never to be met by purchasing carbon credits – indeed, the state was developing/supporting industry to be in a position to sell carbon credits and profit from the carbon tax. Ie. meet emissions targets by promoting a green industry that will create revenue
    -said he had a surplus when he’d actually raided workcover insurance accounts – that is like me saying i got a $20k payrise because i got a $20k loan.
    -claiming to better economically manage the state when he is actually creating more debt and simultaneously putting Vic in the toilet (we are contracting and losing jobs at a faster rate than the rest of the country after only ONE YEAR of them in power)
    -claiming 400 new beds in hospitals in his first term, with the first 100 in the first year (not first full financial year) – where are they Ted? Even your buddies in the AMA can’t find them.

    That is just off the top of my head and I’m not counting. There is no media coverage about him as a liar; election promise breaker; etc. We have mass protests on Spring street constantly and rarely do I see it on the news. Rarely is it in the paper.

    It has certainly happened to male politicians before. I’m sure the frothing fringe of the ALP would be saying some pretty nasty things about Baillieu.

    And we don’t hear any of it. Or it is shunted to another page. Like the coverage of the election where Baillieu got in – no one questioned anything. The Hun are actively decieving people and the wussies in the Age are complicit in not attempt to rebut it.

  30. Anyway, back to the topic …

  31. Splatterbottom

    I reckon Baillieu is a goner next election with that kind of record, narcotic. A quick search of the Age finds them editorialising against Baillieu and carrying a fair number of articles critical of him. (I couldn’t get very far with the Hun’s search engine.)

  32. narcoticmusing

    RM – how is the representations/media that informs people to make political decisions which was extreme during the Qld election not on topic?

  33. “As evidenced by the extreme negative press against ALP in Qld and at the Federal level – where they conveniently leave out that Gillard also promised a carbon price –”

    Indeed, and increasing at a pace. I could care less what right wing nuts say, the media destroyed Bligh and they will carry it on until Gillard is gone.

    The media in this country is following a pattern the good Dr Goebbels would be proud of, and NO I am not joking. Conservatives just don’t get it. They’re as racist as the day is long, and their ideas belong in an era that Charles Dickens exposed over a hundred years ago. We will see how much they love their conservative masters after a term of Tony Abbott. I truly fear for my children’s, feminists, homo sexual, boat people, unionists, progressives, charity workers, disability recipients, future. The country has gone barking mad. The worst part is, some of the above voted for the latest coterie of cretins in Queensland and will expect a different result. I despair.

  34. Because I believe that Jeremy’s original post was about the encroachment of church upon state and the highly undemocratic unicameral system in place in Queensland, and that Sir Joh’s damage inflicted upon the state is even longer-lasting that Kennett’s efforts down here in Victoria. (OK, Jeremy didn’t mention Kennett … but he SHOULD HAVE)

  35. “Sir Joh’s damage inflicted upon the state….” Yes. Those of us in Sunshine State know well that we live in the shadow of blatant corruption and viciously administered fear; what is “left” up here is well to the right of other states; that for Australia to “progress” it has to grapple with the “Queens” land mindset of deeply conservative values. Peter Beattie’s eulogy at Johs’ State Funeral is one of the lowest points of so called Labor politics in the history of Australia IMHO.

    Do Nothing Newman and his cronies will repeal the civil union act, and that’ll be just the start. Bligh feared doing anything about abortion laws up here, she couldn’t mess too much in the land of the religious right…things will get really ugly; these twisted individuals in power up here would kill, chop up, bag, freeze and sell off the bits of their own grandmothers if they thought they’d make a buck for themselves and their billionaire mates. The (awful, yes) heritage of Jeff K is but a ripple in a pond compared to the tsunami of right wing bile washing the shores of the Gold Coast.

  36. The media in this country is following a pattern the good Dr Goebbels would be proud of, and NO I am not joking. Conservatives just don’t get it. They’re as racist as the day is long, and their ideas belong in an era that Charles Dickens exposed over a hundred years ago.

    The media are Nazis and Conervatives are all racist.

    You’re barking mad Lynot.

  37. Eeurgh … Eric, that looks horrible. You’re absolutely right – it is worse than anyone would have thought.

    But then – how many people remember the Joh era and just how bad it was?

  38. Extreme comment number one:

    The media are Nazis and Conervatives are all racist.

    Extreme comment number two:

    You’re barking mad Lynot.

    A little temperance, please.

  39. ” You’re barking mad Lynot.”

    Indeed. I was born like it, what’s your excuse?

    But of course I will take anything the good resident lefty says, that being you, with a large grain, sorry, block of salt. Eric said much the same in different words.

    A veritable mad house.

  40. So, Returnedman, Lynot accuses Australian media of behaving like the Nazis, and then claims that conervatives are “as racist as the day is long” and you take issue – not with those comments but with me calling him out on it?

    A little intelligence please.

  41. Eric said much the same in different words.

    Nope – sorry Lynot – another nonsense claim from you I’m afraid.

    Eric has (valid) concerns about the influence the LNP will have over the imposition of Christian religion on schoolkids. Nothing about nazis in the media or racism amongst conservatives.

  42. mondo:

    I would suggest you read the recent publication “The Administration of Fear” an extended interview with Paul Virilio which cogently and clearly outlines the unambiguous connection between our current (global) media practices and the Nazi propaganda strategies instigated during the European Occupation.

    One would be hard pressed to call Virilio “barking mad” IMHO as he is widely regarded as one of the world’s greatest living thinkers. I am not sure that Mr lynot is in his league, but lynot clearly knows far more about the current media situation than you appear to. Oh, and racism is embedded into mainstream rightist thinking of course….

    http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=12851

    Sir Joh knew all this stuff backwards, and used it well. So do the powerbrokers in the LNP; dissent in Queensland will slowly and quietly be quashed by a single newspaper, owned and controlled by rightists, and a police force that is further to the right than any other in Australia. Try telling the residents of Palm Island all about how barking mad lynot is, they’d laugh in your face. As of course, do I.

  43. Well Lynot – I owe you an apology for at least one of the comments I have made. Never let it be said that I can’t admit to error.

    You were right and I was wrong: Eric is indeed as barking mad as you are.

  44. you take issue … not with those comments but with me calling him out on it?

    What exactly does “Extreme comment number one” mean to you, mondo?

    Please, read.

  45. Usual sidestep from mondo..cha cha cha.

  46. Eric – allow me to respond to you in a direct and unambiguous fashion so there can be no confusion about me sidestepping the issue.

    You are a hysterical, Godwin spouting loon for comparing today’s press, including all the various media outlets from the ABC to Fairfax to News to Commercial Television, to Nazi propoganda. You can quote the fringe outpourings of similar conspiracy-minded mental midgets until the cows come home but that won’t magically grant legitimacy to your obviously inane hyperbole.

    Similarly, you are an intolerant, small minded bigot for accusing all modern mainstream right-wingers of being racist. That sort of insipid nonsense is the sort of thing one would expect from a child, and not a particularly bright one at that.

    Cha cha cha.

  47. RM – perhaps you could be more explicit in your point?

    The sentence of mine that you have labelled as “Extreme comment number one” is quite self explanatory. I’m not sure how its meaning could be at all unclear, but obviously you believe there is some nuance to its meaning that I have missed.

  48. narcoticmusing

    Rm – Baillieu has the potential to have a much greater impact than Kennett had and here is how:

    Kennet was elected with a clear agenda. He was going to cut services. He was going to reduce public servants etc. He was open about this. He was elected with the knowledge he’d do this.

    Baillieu was elected with a promise to provide “Services that Work” (including reducing waiting lists, fixing trains, fixing everything to make them work at public expected levels). He promised “Transparency and Accountability” – just look at his FOI responses and his anti-corruption commission (that no one will touch because of the secrecy around it which is pretty inconsistent with transparancy and accountability); he also promised better access to community based services, better health services, the best paid teachers, etc etc

    And instead, he’s cutting funding and services all of the joint. His rationale? He can’t read the budget papers. All non-recurrent funding is clearly visible in BP3 and 5. So they are either incompetent or lying. He is promising one thing and doing another. Kennet was brutal but he said he would be.

  49. “Usual sidestep from mondo..cha cha cha.”

    There is only the world of “Mondo”

    Mondo your ignorance of history is only exceeded by your confusion on how politics is played in this country. That the whole British Empire was forged out of the fires of racism and greed is lost on you. Yes, that racism and greed is the very essence of conservative ideology. To deny this salient fact borders on delusion.

    Barking mad or gullible is worthy of much debate, but not with you.

  50. The first “extreme comment” was by those who were saying the media are nazis and all conservatives are racist – effectively, agreeing with your paraphrasing. Should have been clearer in what I meant by that, but it’s because a blanket statement IS an extreme statement.

    But then you can’t point out the splinter in their eye when you’ve got the whopping great beam in your own. It’s like saying “Don’t call people names, you dickhead.”

  51. Splatterbottom

    Lynot: “Mondo your ignorance of history is only exceeded by your confusion on how politics is played in this country. “

    Extremely funny coming from one of the more intemperate commenters here to one of the more reasoned commenters.

    “That the whole British Empire was forged out of the fires of racism and greed is lost on you.”

    Of course the British Empire and every other civilisation from China to ancient Greece was motivated by racism and greed to some extent. But in each case there was a whole lot more to it than that.

    But the odd thing is that you think this is somehow relevant to your next sentence:

    “Yes, that racism and greed is the very essence of conservative ideology.”

    That statement is a sweeping generalisation which demonstrates complete ignorance of conservative ideas. It is a bit like me asserting that nihilism, narcisim and hubris are the very essence of leftism. There is a grain of truth in that statement, and it may well be true of you, but it is certainly not true of many other leftists.

    Your real objection to Mondo is that he has not bought the entire leftist package lock, stock and barrel, and that he dares to think for himself. You should try it some time.

  52. I have a comment in moderation, but it’s been stuck there since yesterday afternoon so it’s impact is probably wasted now.

    Suffice to say that I’m disappointed that Eric can move so seamlessly from valid, sensible argument (election of a fundamentalist zealot may lead to an unacceptable imposition of Christian nuttery into Qld State schools) to loopy-left self parody.

    It’s this tendency towards childish moralising and ridiculous hyperbole that convinces so many in the Centre and Right to dismiss valid left-wing and progressive commentary as fringe-dwelling nonsense.

    You fools are hurting us far more than you realise.

  53. mondo:

    Being a far rightist you have that old failsafe anti-intellectualism to rely on I guess. As usual you talk endlessly about how reasonable you are, but never actually engage with any well reasoned thinking going on outside of your own little bubble.

    Virilio is not left, or right for that matter, he’s a Christian as well actually, but unlike so many Christians (point of post thread) he does let that get in the way of his sharp reason and remarkable scholarship. And he is so far from loopy you reveal again your rampant right wing prejudice by not engaging in any way with his very deep historical and structural analysis of a global society permanently at war with itself..you might learn something if you gave his writings a go….if you choose not to, then even remotely claiming that you have any actual knowledge or anything sensible to say whatsoever about the current state of the global realpolitik, well….you are kidding yourself.

    Now…I am not suggesting that everyone needs to read Virilio, but you mondo, whose political arrogance and self deceit knows no bounds, would do well to actually acquaint yourself with contemporary smart thinking on socio/political circumstances before you continue endlessly making a complete fool of yourself.

    “us”. while you can fool some of the people most of the time mondo you are not fooling me.

    SB: “one of the more reasoned commenters”…ah yes..the old “but we are just so reasoned” line.

  54. It is a bit like me asserting that nihilism, narcisim and hubris are the very essence of leftism.

    Uh … yeah, that’s right. That’s making generalisations about the Left.

    And SB would never do THAT.

    Uh, uh.

    Never.

  55. “But the odd thing is that you think this is somehow relevant to your next sentence:”

    SB you are about at the same level as Mondo, as for thinking for myself! Give me a break. Your whole M.O. is based on the ignorance of your own biases.Besides libraries are fool of books of recorded history that are on my side not yours. I stand by my, what did you call it ? Oh yes that’s right sweeping generalisations. I guess even old Adolph himself gave his relatives Xmas presents.

    “You fools are hurting us far more than you realise.”

    Indeed. Any hurt I can put on conservative B.S. Artists is what gets me up in the mornings. Save your diatribe for your grand children.

  56. Should have been clearer in what I meant by that, but it’s because a blanket statement IS an extreme statement.

    Thanks for clarifying RM.

    But I’m still confused – what blanket and/or extreme statements do you accuse me of making? What have I said that’s on par with Eric/Lynot’s Godwin and/or their sweeping generalisation that all conservatism is based on racism?

    If I have made any such comments I’m genuinely unaware of them.

  57. As usual you talk endlessly about how reasonable you are, but never actually engage with any well reasoned thinking going on outside of your own little bubble.

    Well reasoned thinking like your (not at all hysterical) claim that modern media now behaves like a Nazi propoganda arm, Lynot?

    Or did you mean your well-reasoned argument that all conservatives are racist?

    And now I’m a “far rightist” am I? I’m sure your basis for that little gem is just as “well reasoned” as the rest of the dribbling nonsense that passes for thought inside that head of yours. Name one single right-wing position that I’ve taken on any issue discussed on this blog – just one.

    I support gay mariage, the welfare state, government provision of social services, an increased refugee intake, a progressive taxation system, Occupy US, non-military foreign policy and I am a critic of Israel. I am an unabashed fan of Glenn Greenwald and have posted at Lefty’s site (and various other incarnations) for the past 10 years and have voted Green/Labor in the past four federal elections.

    But because I (accurately) describe your claims above as hyterical hyperbolic nonsense I must be of the “far right”.

    You’re a crack-up. And yes – still barking mad.

  58. Sorry Lynot – got you confused with Eric in my post above.

    But everything I said applies equally to you.

  59. Besides libraries are fool of books of recorded history that are on my side not yours. I stand by my, what did you call it ? Oh yes that’s right sweeping generalisations. I guess even old Adolph himself gave his relatives Xmas presents.

    WTF?!

    Jesus H Christ – I’m starting to think that “barking mad” was too soft a term to describe you Lynot! It’s far too playful to describe the clinical insanity rattling around inside your brain.

    Get help.

  60. Splatterbottom

    RM: “That’s making generalisations about the Left.

    And SB would never do THAT.”

    RM I try not to as far as is possible, although I do slip into shoddy generalisation every now and then.

    Lynot: “SB you are about at the same level as Mondo”

    I take that as a considerable, if undeserved, compliment. You do know that most of Mondo’s comments on this blog are broadly from a leftist perspective, don’t you?

    “libraries are fool of books”

    Obviously a Freudian slip. You might do better to leave the “fool” books alone. Start by ignoring anything which cites with approval or is written by Chomsky, Pilger, Cockburn, Said, Zinn or anyone who is fawned over by Philip Adams on LNL.

  61. “modern media now behaves like a Nazi propoganda arm, Lynot?” .

    mondo what you are simply refusing to engage with here is that the media does, in fact, behave like this. There is a huge amount (and I mean huge) amount of well researched, empirical, scientifically recognised scholarship on this issue. It is, in fact, not a contentious (or hysterical) observation at all; your failure to recognise this shows how far out of touch you are with the real world….

    And of course you can list a whole bunch of stuff that you say makes you left..LOL..but then again, whenever any of those issues come up you take a rightist position and then claim that anyone not agreeing with you is…loony.

  62. mondo what you are simply refusing to engage with here is that the media does, in fact, behave like this.

    Like Goebbles? Like the Nazi propoganda machine?

    No. It. Doesn’t. That’s an insane Godwin that all rational people will reject.

    whenever any of those issues come up you take a rightist position and then claim that anyone not agreeing with you is…loony.

    No, I claim that people arguing that our modern media is a Nazi-like propoganda machine are loony. If that is a “rightist” position then grease me up and call me Newt.

    But you go ahead and believe what you want to believe. Australia is still a free country.

  63. “Like Goebbles? Like the Nazi propoganda machine?” . LOL.

    Oh yes mondo, exactly like that. Look out, your political naiveté is showing…..

    And of course your positioning of this mainstream and widely accepted fact (“like the Nazi propoganda machine”) as loony left, demonstrates how far to the right your perception of the world actually is.

    Because the empirical observation and mainstream (yes mondo, mainstream, not even remotely far left) analysis of our post-modern media complex via the social sciences is some kind of loony conspiracy theory according to you; you have regular similar resonses to whole range of facts you don’t happen to like, or which don’t slot into your narrow and prejudiced world view.

    Once agin you display either your basic ignorance of the world you live in, or you are (more likely) pretending to be this superficial to play your usual concern troll games: yawn.

    Whichever way it is, nobody with a even an once of contemporary socio/political understanding is ever going take anything you say about politics even remotely seriously, ever again.

  64. No more. This is not pleasant. I’m not publishing any more comments where people are having petty goes at each other.

  65. “But you go ahead and believe what you want to believe. Australia is still a free country.”

    Of course it is. We are free to persecute homosexuals, people with disability’s, etc, etc, etc, yep we’re free alright. We have a free and open media don’t we? Just ask old Rupe, he’ll sit ya all down and tell ya all about it. We are free to negotiate our own wages, but wait, wait, there was work choices wasn’t there. Soon to return no doubt. Government intervention freedom. But wait the police forces of this fair land investigate themselves don’t they? Ahhhhh so much freedom, I’m bubbling all over.

    Yep free at last, free at last thank God Almighty free at last. Yes I remember it well. And who could forget national service. More freedom.

    But wait, there are Aboriginals setting up an embassy in Perth as we speak. It’s gone, what do you mean it’s gone< We have freedom don't we?

    The notion of freedom from conservatives, how quaint.

  66. narcoticmusing

    Huzzah – gotta love that representative government Qld got…

    My paraphrase: History shows us men are great, women meanwhile are mothers, whores or witches -which one are you Ms Sourpus (the name the LNP staffer gave a feminist who pointed out the massive reduction in female representation in the new qld parliament)
    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/lnp-staffer-quits-after-antifeminist-rant-20120418-1x6bs.html#ixzz1sMGKkmaQ

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