Salt mines for the dole

The right-wing boomers that Tony Abbott represents really hate the young, don’t they?

We’ll prevent you from ever owning a home, we’ll saddle you with debt to support us in our old age, and when you can’t get a job because of this global financial crisis we left you, we’ll let you starve. Ha, ha, ha.

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39 responses to “Salt mines for the dole

  1. Wisdom Like Silence

    The liberals are genuinely torching themselves right now. They do know that under 30s are going to be voting for the next 50 years don’t they?

  2. usesomesanity

    This is actually a good plan. A lot of young people dont have the funds to move so the govt. and mining coy’s can set them up. They will need to be paid very good wages and a career path so they dont fuck off as soon as they arrive. No use having them wasting their time looking for jobs in places they dont have any due to lack of govt. regulation incompetence.
    Importing labour to do what current unemployed Australians would be happy to do, if given the set up resources, seems crazy.

  3. Wisdom Like Silence

    You support gulags?

  4. All in all the overall idea isn’t a bad one, just poorly thought out in these circumstances.

    I’m all for paying someone the dole, but only if they’ve actually done something to earn it. By that, I’m saying they should be out actually looking for work or gaining skills in order to become employed – not sitting at home smoking and drinking it all away.

    That said, the government needs to actually put programs into place to help people who are on the dole not be.

  5. Usesomesanity seems to have the right idea. Mining companies need to be proactive in attracting employees instead of whinging to the government about unemployment being too attractive.

    Although the Coalition might be onto something with the whole centerlink preventing people from working idea. Maybe if centerlink worked on a guaranteed income model, so that instead of losing all of the dole when they got a job, the government money was weaned away progressively based on their income. Since this would benefit business, they should have to pay for it with a “moderate levy” (effectively having companies with sufficient labour subsidizing companies suffering labour shortages)

  6. This is actually a good plan.

    It’s a lousy plan. For a start transplanting people into a high skilled industry like the mining sector is very difficult, esp when the aim of your policy is to reduce young people on unemployment benefit. Watch for the relevent industry to oppose what the opposition is proposing, leaving Abbott with just a populist stunt.

    Secondly, where will this influx of young people live? There’s already housing shortfalls in the relevent localities as it is without further stress on the system.

    When the Libs sort out their brain fart I’m assuming normal programming will resume.

  7. Three quick points.

    1. The “dole” is there as a safety net: if you can’t find work, you won’t starve (is the idea). The Libs’ plan says to those under 30 – can’t find work? It’s the park bench for you.

    2. NewStart recipients already have to prove they’re actively looking for work. Every fortnight.

    3. NewStart is already well below subsistence level. It’s almost impossible to survive on by itself.

  8. usesomesanity

    Young unemployed people who would be happy to relocate in order to seek guranteed high paying employment and be skilled up, housed and fed in their set up stages should not be denied that oppotunity due their own funding limitations.
    No one should be forced to work in a mine, however there are plenty who would be happy to given the funding oppotunity and it make more sense to skill up our own people than import labour and let our people rot on the dole due to lack of funds to go where the jobs are.
    Those that are happy to rot on the dole should not be encouraged.
    And there is no point actively looking for work where there is none because you simply wont find it.

  9. usesomesanity

    Does Jeremy support public/private partership of helping relocate unemployed youth?

  10. Exactly. The Libs are just trying to appeal to the anti-youth sentiment so common among the oldies.

    This is so typical of do-nothing Abbott: float an idea and watch while the Liberal cheersquad in the media churn it around the airwaves etc. If there’s a positive response, run with it. If not, declare it’s not actually coalition policy.

  11. promoting ageism is a old political ruse to get groups arguing amongst themselves. it usually gets wheeled out when talking about house prices

  12. Perhaps a change of title is in order? – Coal Mines / Gold Mines for the dole.

  13. The mining industry requires skilled workers, not people off the street with no prior experience. If the government wanted to set up an easy-entry training scheme in conjunction with the resources sector, and encourage unemployed people into it, I don’t think anyone would disagree with it.

    But abolishing dole for the under 30s to try and get them into a specific industry? What a wank. Punitive measures like that don’t work, nor does trying to deluge an industry that is highly dangerous with people without the necessary training.

  14. Splatterbottom

    It is far better to find people jobs than to put them on the dole. So Abbott has got this half right. Perhaps we should consider a public works program. The jobs should be outside the major cities, to encourage regional development.

  15. Wisdom Like Silence

    Yeah, they can work for food and board for their living, and never have time to find a better job.

    Some of them can work in fields, picking stuff, and the others could work in buildings, cleaning stuff.

  16. So if I’m a 28 year old with a masters degree in media (for example) and I have spent 6 years (minimum) and many thousands of dollars to get my qualification and I am currently unemployed, then Tony wants me to go and learn a whole new set of skills and move to a remote area of Australia to work.

    This is a clearly stupid idea.

    Work in media and many other industries takes time to find. You need to create a network of friends and acquaintances in your industry of choice. This is usually part of your training while at university. You also need to be near the work, to be able to attend interviews and industry events and functions, to create a profile of employability and interest.

    All the Mad Monk’s idea will do, is make it harder for those that have qualifications to find work in the area they are qualified for.

    He hasn’t thought this through. As someone said above, a brain fart.

  17. while we’re discriminating against people based on age.. could we abolish the annual allowance for MPs under 80 years old?

    they obviously don’t “pull their weight”, but yet receive an allowance of $127,000… a massive drain on hard working tax payers

    and yes i plucked the age “80″ out of my ass, abbott-style…

  18. I think Abbott has been reading too much Solzhenitsyn, he’s clearly been inspired by Stalin’s work camp system.

    Unfortuneately for Tony, in today’s modern age of technology, mining isn’t a case of giving a bloke a pick and shovel and shoving him into a hole in the ground — its a little more skilled than that.

    Not to mention that many under 30′s are married with school-age kids, so it’s not always going to be easy for them to just pull up stakes and go and live where the mines are.

  19. usesomesanity

    SB- “Perhaps we should consider a public works program. The jobs should be outside the major cities, to encourage regional development.”

    Why bother when there are real jobs that will go to someone either imported or domestic labour in the mines. And there are unemployed happy to go there who cant fund the relocation. The govt. should be allowed to fund those willing to relocate? Alternative send more unproductive money and make them stay put and cont. to fund their dole when they want to move to where the jobs are.

  20. You’re not listening are you. usesomesanity?

    The mines don’t want unskilled 20 somethings.
    They want Tradies and engineers. They want people who can operate heavy machinery
    They don’t want apprentices.

    Abbott only threw this out there to take the headlines away from Rudd’s success at COAG.

    Cheers

  21. And there’s no point sending people to where the work is if there’s nowhere for them to live, and the demand for housing means a town’s usual residents are priced out of their own housing market or displaced, as is happening in parts of the north west of WA.

  22. usesomesanity

    “They want Tradies and engineers. They want people who can operate heavy machinery”

    Well train them up and let them work because that is what they desperately want to do. Why deny them?

  23. Say, for the sake of credulity-stretched argument, that training was to be made available – if they “desperately want” to move to the desert to do this work, why do we need to threaten them with starvation?

  24. Wisdom Like Silence

    …How else would they get them off their lazy arses?

    DIDN’T YOU SEE THE ACA STORY ON THOSE LONGHAIRS?!

  25. usesomesanity

    if they “desperately want” to move to the desert to do this work, why do we need to threaten them with starvation?

    “Threatening w starvation”

    Provide the relocation funding and training for those happy to relocate. No need to go any future until demand for labour is accessed after that.

    Good old supply and demand.

    Long term unemployed and a labour shortage you do the math. Win Win??

    Common scense – oxymoron.

    What is your solution public works up bush as well?

    Or more and more public training for fewer and fewer jobs in cities?

  26. What is your solution public works up bush as well?

    Well they used to get aboriginals to work for the dole in public works ‘jobs’, but the Howard government cut that because they weren’t real jobs and people were being ‘skilled’ to do jobs that didn’t exist.

    Abbott’s thought bubble will go the same way. It takes 5 to 6 years at university to become a qualified engineer, yet there have been no public announcements from him about incentivising the study of these courses. There is nowhere for people to live in mining towns, yet there have been no public announcements from him about federal monies for housing in these areas. It’s all just a dogwhistle.

  27. Sanity, I don’t see what anything you’ve had to say has to do with cutting off centerlink payments from under thirties. It’s like you’re having a completely different conversation to everyone else.
    Abbott didn’t say he was going to provide funding for training and relocation. He said he was going to take money away from young people without jobs.

  28. I’m just glad Abbott’s recent rubbish is showing the true colours of the Liberal Party at long last.

    It’s not as if young people aren’t vulnerable already – let’s make sure they cannot feed themselves if they’re out of work. That makes perfect sense (to a right-wing zealot)

  29. usesomesanity

    “Sanity, I don’t see what anything you’ve had to say has to do with cutting off centerlink payments from under thirties.”

    I am simply stating that in an increasing two speed economy like Australia unemployed people who really want work may have to be flexible to relocate. Thoes that are happy too look for scarse jobs in the recession speed sector of the economy can live on the dole if they can afford it forever just as long as they know there are few jobs around and they may not get their desired employment.

  30. “I am simply stating that in an increasing two speed economy like Australia unemployed people who really want work may have to be flexible to relocate”

    Yep, that’s a fantastic idea! Chuck them into the middle of nowhere where there aren’t enough resources to house the people who are already there when they’ve presumably been unemployed for some time and have no resources of their own into an industry that struggles to keep it’s fatalities down with it’s skilled labour-force.

    Fucking genius. How about we fix the problem rather than sticking a band-aid on it that’s made of flesh-eating bacteria? How about the government -if it has to try and force people into industries presumably against their will by cutting off their welfare payments – sets up an easy-entry training course for people looking to get into the resources sector, gives incentives for entering it – and more importantly completing it, that gives credits for those who go on to do an engineering course that could be sponsored by their employer?

    How about rather than chuck up Tin Towns in the middle of nowhere they properly resource them and don’t turn them into places that are difficult to raise families in? Because that’s what an unexpected boom of personnel does. How do you educate your children in towns like that? How do you set up a school? How long does that take? Doctors? Hospitals? Social activities for youth? Community groups? Grocery stores?

    Seriously, has anyone with a working knowledge of the resourcing sector thought this through?

  31. usesomesanity

    These towns might not have all they creature comforts but you will have a job. Without a job in a big city how many creature comforts can you afford anyways

  32. Access to education and healthcare are not “creature comforts”, they’re basic rights.

    Answer my question. How long does it take to entice a health service to these towns? Unless you’ve magically solved the crisis in health care in rural towns and the problems attendant with getting doctors to stay in rural areas, that’s going to be a sticking point.

    How long does it take to set up a school? Or a correspondence program? And given correspondence programs require resources such as laptops with video capabilities for remote tutoring of students, how is that any cheaper than making sure the town has adequate schooling resources?

    You haven’t thought it through, n. You clearly have no idea of the problems involved with an influx of workers to a town that has been chucked up in six months, which most of them have, and you have absolutely no idea of the kind of training and skills involved in the resources industry, and what kind of workers the sector needs.

    But hey! Let’s not think it through. Let’s chuck 60,000 people into towns already over capacity, into jobs they aren’t skilled to do, into an industry with a higher fatality rate than almost any other when we know there are a myriad of reasons why it’s not a good idea!

  33. These towns might not have all they creature comforts but you will have a job.

    But you won’t have anywhere to live, esp in the mining towns in WA’s north west.

  34. Wisdom Like Silence

    demountables have roofs don’t they?

  35. usesomesanity

    They nah says always come up with quick reasons why thing can’t be done. And never do anything. Thoes with a more positive outlook work how it can.

  36. You should have a chat to Andrew Forrest about using demountables as accommodation in cyclone-prone areas. You might like to dismiss the housing issue as simply nay-saying, but at present there isn’t enough accommodation in these mining towns to cope with the existing workforce demands.

  37. Splatterbottom

    Of course there are many occupations may require less training but which support the mining industry:

    “Well, the mining industry has a long history of supporting local businesses,” he said.
    “On top of mining, there are many drilling operations.”

  38. Don’t worry about that Keri. Surely we can just tell some of the under thirties that they’re now doctors or teachers, and after a few years they should get the hang of it.

  39. Of course there are many occupations may require less training but which support the mining industry:

    Regardless of whether they are working for mining companies, or in retail industries that support the mining economy, there is still a shortage of housing in the towns! Housing that is available is expensive (rents of around $1000pw for an average home is not uncommon).

    Miners and associated staff can at least negotiate FIFO. Hairdressers and shop assistants cannot.

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